Date: Wed, 4 Jan 89 21:53:13 EST From: the DC Area Turist Assasination Squad Subject: AI ML MC DM MD DX! To: KS-ITS@AI.AI.MIT.EDU, ITS-LOVERS@AI.AI.MIT.EDU Message-ID: <513618.890104.DEVON@AI.AI.MIT.EDU> This evening in the DC area, Doug Humphrey (DigEx), Don Hopkins (a2DeH) and Devon McCullough (Devon) were witness to the following blessed event: DX ITS.1631. DDT.1545. TTY 0 You're all alone, Fair share = 86% (ITS does not know the date, so messages cannot be reviewed right now.) :pdset (Please Log In) ___002 PDSET IOTLSR PDSET.114 Please don't use this program unless you know how. You are certain to break something if you happen to hit the wrong key. Type Control-Z to exit, or ? for a reminder of the commands. 890104D 2041T .!. 113315/ 0 777663,,550665 ___002 113314/ 0 3705 ___002 IT IS NOW 8:41:01 PM EST, WEDNESDAY, JAN 4,1989 TARAKA DMPCPY . _DMPCP OUTPUT WRITE 20:41:12 TARAKA DMPCPY . @ ITS DELRNM 20:41:15 Q :KILL *  Date: Wed, 19 Oct 88 23:27:01 EDT From: "Pandora B. Berman" Subject: work on ML To: ricchio@XX.LCS.MIT.EDU cc: BUG-KS@AI.AI.MIT.EDU Message-ID: <467947.881019.CENT@AI.AI.MIT.EDU> you may have heard that ML's disk drive was broken. DEC came last week and thought they had fixed it, but they were wrong. so mike D'avolio turned up this week to work on it. he had not finished by the time Alan left today for vacation. alan said he got the impression from DEC Field Circus on the phone that the repair PO he generated last week to cover this work might have been closed before he called to say ML was still broken. he also said that for some reason, DEC seems to gravitate to talking to you about the KSs sometimes, even though only half of them are LCS. so, if D'Avolio or some other DEC type starts complaining to you that they have not received the PO for the work on ML this week, please let me know, and i will arrange to have another repair PO generated. thanks. alan will be back sometime next week.  Date: Mon, 3 Oct 88 22:49:37 EDT From: "Pandora B. Berman" Subject: why there are par errs To: BUG-KS@AI.AI.MIT.EDU Message-ID: <456210.881003.CENT@AI.AI.MIT.EDU> Date: Mon, 3 Oct 88 08:12:16 PDT From: Mark Crispin Subject: Re: retransmit To: CENT@AI.AI.MIT.EDU In-Reply-To: <455322.881002.CENT@AI.AI.MIT.EDU> Postal-Address: 1802 Hackett Ave.; Mountain View, CA 94043-4431 Phone: +1 (415) 968-1052 If you've been having ?PAR ERR xxx yyy zzz type errors on a KS10, you can refer to the KS10 hardware manual for the interpretation of those bits. It should point you precisely at the board that is unhappy. Another thing to do is the double and triple check the voltages from the KS10 power supply (the Mighty Mite). KS's like to run a little bit hot so err on the side of high (e.g. 5.1) instead of low. -------  Received: from REAGAN.AI.MIT.EDU (CHAOS 13065) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU 9 May 88 14:21:17 EDT Received: from BUDDY.AI.MIT.EDU by REAGAN.AI.MIT.EDU via CHAOS with CHAOS-MAIL id 110534; Mon 9-May-88 14:19:02 EDT Received: from SUMEX-AIM.Stanford.EDU (TCP 1200000070) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU 6 May 88 22:18:00 EDT Received: from PANDA.PANDA.COM by SUMEX-AIM.Stanford.EDU with Cafard; Fri, 6 May 88 19:10:33 PDT Received: from SUMEX-AIM.Stanford.EDU by PANDA.PANDA.COM with Cafard; Fri, 6 May 88 18:01:17 PDT Received: from eneevax.umd.edu by SUMEX-AIM.Stanford.EDU with TCP; Fri, 6 May 88 17:27:41 PDT Received: by eneevax.umd.edu (5.54/4.7) id AA10342; Fri, 6 May 88 16:47:45 ]Io Date: Fri, 6 May 88 16:47:45 From: Douglas Humphrey Message-Id: <8805062047.AA10342@eneevax.umd.edu> To: KS-Owners@panda.panda.com, ridder%warlok.DEC@decwrl.dec.com Subject: Re: KS10 IO instructions Cc: deh@eneevax.umd.edu, devon@ai.ai.mit.edu Resent-To: ks-its@AI.AI.MIT.EDU Resent-From: Alan Bawden Resent-Date: Mon, 9 May 88 14:19 EDT Resent-Message-ID: <880509141900.2.ALAN@BUDDY.AI.MIT.EDU> Actualy, this is not about IO instructions, but about power supplies. I support a commercial KS10 site here in Washington D.C. (DEC doesn't know how to fix these things any longer, and they admit it frankly) who has cooked his power supply (H7130C made by LH Research). I managed to find him one, but it too was bad; I will receive another tomorrow morning and try that out. I need to find LH Research so that I can get the bad one fixed to have as a spare. Does anyone out there know where these people are? I have looked in every reference I have and can not find them. Does anyone know if there is any activity on the idea of building a modern disk controller for the KS? This is something that I am sure all of us would welcome. My RM03s are the worst thing about my 2020. Interesting story: the heat pump air handler in my house was replaced recently, and when the guys came in to do the work, one a young guy, and one an older gentleman, they were a little suprised at the 2020 system there, next (roughly) to the air system. To my great suprise, the old guy leaned over the console, and logged into F-S !!! I had not changed the password (same as the RED pack). Seems he used to work for DEC in field circus, and didn't know much about 20s (he knows everything about 8's though!) but thought (correctly) that he remembered how to log in. I gave him a PDP8, and a hugh box full of flip-chips. It was really a blast talking to this guy. Not only did he replace my air handler for the house, but he griped about my going so long between filter changes on the RM03s in such a dirty environment, and proceeded to PM the drives. The young guy (who was actually the boss) didn't seem too interested in all of this. The old guy says he will give me a call when he gets the 8 running (I gave him a set of RX02s, controller, and a box of floppies too...) I don't know why this guy ever retired. I hope I have half that much energy when I am 68 !!! Strange things do happen.... Question: Is there some way to put a TOPS-20 on usenet ?? Doug  Received: from eneevax.umd.edu (TCP 20002102401) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU 23 Dec 87 04:15:10 EST Received: by eneevax.umd.edu (5.9/4.7) id AA28299; Wed, 23 Dec 87 04:15:41 EST Date: Wed, 23 Dec 87 04:15:41 EST From: Douglas Humphrey Message-Id: <8712230915.AA28299@eneevax.umd.edu> To: ks-its@ai, ks-owners%panda.com@sumex-aim.stanford.edu Subject: 2020 s/n 4384 lives Folks, It is with a lot of pleasure, and a lot of smiles, that I can announce that 2020 s/n 4384, known generaly as Banzai, lives. Many thanks to all who sent their suggestions and technical information. I now have, thanks to Mr. Dempster, Volume 1 of the handbook to match my Volume 2. This Ridder fellow sent the magical data on the RM03s to make them behave in a civil (18bit) way. The machine came up without a hitch once the proper switches, jumpers, and other things were set. I have it running UETP right now, but without the tape drive which is the next thing on my list of projects to get running. I have a red pack which should suffice in the MT debugging, with luck. What now? Well, I hope to start running MRCs Tops-20 for general purpose things, and I am looking for any software that I can get for the 20, particularly network modeling type stuff. Anybody know of any? Longer term, I want to get the Tops-10 and ITS releases set up to run, since there is a very good chance that I will be getting another system to play with, or maybe even the guts of one to experiment on making it smaller, etc. What is involved with that? Again, many thanks, and I hope that all of you have a very good season and that the new year will be good to you and the people (and machines) that you love. Doug  Received: from SUMEX-AIM.Stanford.EDU (TCP 1200000070) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU 15 Dec 87 00:15:36 EST Received: from PANDA.COM by SUMEX-AIM.Stanford.EDU with Cafard; Mon, 14 Dec 87 21:14:24 PST Date: Mon, 14 Dec 87 19:40:14 PST From: Mark Crispin Subject: Re: 2020 communications To: deh@ENEEVAX.UMD.EDU cc: ks-its@AI.AI.MIT.EDU, ks-owners@PANDA.COM In-Reply-To: <8712150247.AA06567@eneevax.umd.edu> Postal-Address: 1802 Hackett Ave.; Mountain View, CA 94043-4431 Phone: +1 (415) 968-1052 Message-ID: <12358556828.6.MRC@PANDA.COM> Doug - There is no version of TOPS-20 TCP/IP for the 2020. I may, at some point, create one; but it'll be a fair amount of work and I'd want someplace to talk to using my DUP/KDP. I am absolutely *not* interested in doing SLIP on a DZ11! You can assume this is an absolute, final word on the present status in TOPS-20 land. ITS TCP/IP does run on the 2020, but not using the DUP/KDP. -- Mark -- -------  Received: from eneevax.umd.edu (TCP 20002102401) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU 14 Dec 87 21:46:41 EST Received: by eneevax.umd.edu (5.9/4.7) id AA06567; Mon, 14 Dec 87 21:47:58 EST Date: Mon, 14 Dec 87 21:47:58 EST From: Douglas Humphrey Message-Id: <8712150247.AA06567@eneevax.umd.edu> To: ks-its@ai, ks-owners%panda.com@sumex-aim.stanford.edu Subject: 2020 communications Folks, I am sending this to both the ks-owners and the ks-its lists mainly because it seems that there may be people on the ks-its list that are tops-20 folks as well. The situation is that I have a 2020, and I am interested in putting it onto the arpanet in some way. There are a bunch of people at the University of Maryland that will cooperate with me, but I need to figure out what the available ways are for a 2020 unders some flavor of tops-20 to do this. Also, it would be interesting to know how to do it with ITS as well since I may well be getting a second machine an be able to run both operating systems. I have the usual KMC/DUP comm hardware. I have not heard a real final word on what tcp/ip, etc. exists for the 2020 though. Can someone, or a group of someones, advise and enlighten me? Many thanks, and wishes for a crazy season to you all..... Doug P.S. Peter, no message from you yet on the RM03 wiring changes, and no sign of the KS Volume I yet Joe! Doug  Received: from SPEECH.MIT.EDU by AI.AI.MIT.EDU via Chaosnet; 14 DEC 87 16:42:10 EST Date: Mon 14 Dec 87 16:45:44-EST From: "John Wroclawski" Subject: Re: Networks on MIT's 2020 To: SRA@XX.LCS.MIT.EDU, CC.Kassebaum@R20.UTEXAS.EDU cc: KS-ITS@AI.AI.MIT.EDU In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <12358492294.24.JTW@SPEECH.MIT.EDU> 2020s running ITS currently support IP/TCP over ACC IMP interfaces and CHAOSnet over old chaos hardware. All major IP services are supported. We currently lack domain resolver software, though. Plans are to port Rob's TOPS-20 resolver to ITS, and integrate it with the ITS mailer. Ethernet (Interlan NI1010A interface) support for both IP/TCP and Chaos will exist at some point. I imagine IP/TCP will show up first, unless the aforementioned subnet 6 dies completely. Also, TCP is getting some attention to improve its performance in the face of the current arpanet disaster. 2020s running MIT TOPS20 also support chaosnet, though again only on old chaos hardware at the moment. All usual chaos services are available. -------  Received: from XX.LCS.MIT.EDU (CHAOS 2420) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU 14 Dec 87 15:51:07 EST Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1987 15:49 EST Message-ID: From: Rob Austein To: CC.Kassebaum@R20.UTEXAS.EDU CC: KS-ITS@AI.AI.MIT.EDU Subject: Networks on MIT's 2020 In-reply-to: Msg of 14 Dec 1987 15:48-EST from CC.KASSEBAUM@R20.UTEXAS.EDU Date: Monday, 14 December 1987 15:48-EST From: CC.Kassebaum@R20.UTEXAS.EDU To: sra@XX.LCS.MIT.EDU Re: Networks on MIT's 2020 Rob, what network are on your 2020s running ITS. We have been offered a 2020 from TI, but it would be useless unless it could be networked on the campus network. We would like to run some form of TCP/IP or maybe CHAOSnet. When it was at TI, it was running DECnet Phase II via a DUP11, I think. Is there any chance we could connect it to our network? All four are on MIT subnet 6, one of the last surviving pieces of real chaos wire here. MC and AI are also on the Arpanet, via an interface made by ACC. Somebody else on KS-ITS might be able to provide more info, I've never done anything with the low-level network stuff on ITS. --Rob  Date: Mon, 16 Nov 87 01:12:38 EST From: Doug Humphrey To: KS-ITS@AI.AI.MIT.EDU, DEVON@AI.AI.MIT.EDU, MRC@AI.AI.MIT.EDU Message-ID: <286268.871116.DIGEX@AI.AI.MIT.EDU> Well, after many months of delay and other headaches, the 2020 hardware has been installed in my basement, and AI spent the weekend getting the power hooked up, etc. The system has been powered up and the KS10> prompt obtained. No time yet to get a boot off of the tape or disk. I hope that there will not be problems, but no way to be sure yet. Any advise, etc would be appriciated. Also, it looks like it is time to talk about getting an ITS boot tape/pack, etc so that a Washington D.C. ITS can be realised. Interesting typo up there! I meant I, not AI.... Doug  Received: from XX.LCS.MIT.EDU (CHAOS 2420) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU 26 Jul 87 00:25:39 EDT Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1987 00:22 EDT Message-ID: From: Rob Austein To: "Pandora B. Berman" Cc: BUG-KS@AI.AI.MIT.EDU, f-s@OZ.AI.MIT.EDU, LAUREL@AI.AI.MIT.EDU Subject: 2020 doc state In-reply-to: Msg of 24 Jul 1987 23:05-EDT from "Pandora B. Berman" Date: Friday, 24 July 1987 23:05-EDT From: "Pandora B. Berman" i asked joe ricchio what happened to the boxes of 2020 junk that used to live opposite the dover. he said he had carefully moved them into the field circus office (936). which is where i found them. since they have prints and doc and such, maybe we should put at least one set somewhere else? Well, it's not a bad place for th, so long as it's understood that those are MIT property, not DEC (ie, they can't vanish without our permission). Most of the documentation is actually twenex stuff, not much is related to KS-10 hardware. I'm interested in keeping it around in any case. I'd just prefer not to have to keep it in my office.  Date: Fri, 24 Jul 87 23:05:19 EDT From: "Pandora B. Berman" Subject: 2020 doc state To: BUG-KS@AI.AI.MIT.EDU, LAUREL@AI.AI.MIT.EDU cc: f-s@OZ.AI.MIT.EDU Message-ID: <232348.870724.CENT@AI.AI.MIT.EDU> i asked joe ricchio what happened to the boxes of 2020 junk that used to live opposite the dover. he said he had carefully moved them into the field circus office (936). which is where i found them. since they have prints and doc and such, maybe we should put at least one set somewhere else?  Received: from SUMEX-AIM.STANFORD.EDU (TCP 1200000070) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU 16 Apr 87 04:36:44 EDT Received: from PANDA by SUMEX-AIM.STANFORD.EDU with Cafard; Thu, 16 Apr 87 01:31:16 PDT Date: Thu, 16 Apr 87 00:29:35 PDT From: Mark Crispin Subject: Re: Announcement of the DEC 10 and PDP-6 history project (PROJECT-10262) To: ALAN@AI.AI.MIT.EDU cc: INFO-ITS@AI.AI.MIT.EDU, KS-ITS@AI.AI.MIT.EDU In-Reply-To: <185625.870416.ALAN@AI.AI.MIT.EDU> Postal-Address: 1802 Hackett Ave.; Mountain View, CA 94043-4431 Phone: +1 (415) 968-1052 Message-ID: <12294897588.8.MRC@PANDA> I am involved peripherally with this project. There is NO attempt to shortchange or ignore ITS, WAITS, and TENEX. But!! We will need *papers* from people in these communities in order to fairly cover these operating systems. Otherwise, I will write up something really brief. For ITS, in a few short paragraphs I'll talk about DDT as the command decoder, PCLSR'ing, and the environment that led to the creation of EMACS. I think such coverage WOULD shortchange ITS. There are lots of important concepts that can and should be discussed in detail -- PCLSR'ing, ITS virtual memory (not as good as TOPS-20/Tenex, but quite advanced for its time), canonical terminals/SUPDUP/CRTSTY, symbolic system calls, CHEOPS, Knight TV system, ... TECO and TECO-based editors should be a paper in itself. -------  Date: Thu, 16 Apr 87 02:04:00 EDT From: Alan Bawden Subject: Announcement of the DEC 10 and PDP-6 history project (PROJECT-10262) To: INFO-ITS@AI.AI.MIT.EDU, KS-ITS@AI.AI.MIT.EDU Message-ID: <185625.870416.ALAN@AI.AI.MIT.EDU> The following message was forwarded to me (it was originally sent to AIList I think) with the suggestion that I should redistribute it to whatever mailing lists of PDP-10 hackers I knew of. I don't know anything more about this than what is revealed here. It does kind of sound like these guys are planning on writing a history of PDP-10's that only mentions TOPS10 and TOPS20 and fails to consider ITS and WAITS and perhaps shortchanges TENEX. But I suspect that this is merely a shortcoming of this announcement. Date: 16 Mar 1987 1311-EST From: "Joe Dempster, DTN: 336.2252 AT&T: 609.665.8711" Subject: Announcement of the DEC 10 and PDP-6 history project (PROJECT-10262) This message originates from 2 sources: Les Earnest Computer Science Department STANFORD UNIVERSITY Stanford, CA 94305 415.723.9729 ARPA: LES@SAIL.STANFORD.EDU Joe Dempster DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORPORATION 6 Cherry Hill Executive Campus Route 70 Cherry Hill, NJ 08002 609.665.8711 ARPA: DEMPSTER@MARLBORO.DEC.COM (MARKET) The goal of this project is to publish an analysis and history of the evolution, implementation and use of Digital's 36 bit systems. This period began with the PDP-6 in 1964 and continues today with TOPS 10/20 development, which is scheduled to end in 1988. We are working aggressively to finish the project, and have it published, by March/April 1988. This will require that the completed manuscript be ready to go into the publication cycle by August 1987! The project will attempt to answer the following questions: 1. In what markets/applications were these systems used? 2. Who were the users of these systems and what impact did roughly 2,500 TOPS 10/20 systems have on their organizations? 3. Who were the principle system architects of these systems? What features, and if there had been sufficient time to implement them, would have significantly improved the architecture? 4. What impact did the decision to continue to examine design extensions to the architecture have on the usefulness and acceptability of these systems. This is in contrast to a more common practice today to work from a detailed design specification, sometimes dated, building follow-on systems which provide increased performance through the use of new component technologies and packaging techniques. 5. What part of the overall design (TOPS10/20) was technology dependent and what can still be considered "unequaled" in relation to other computer architectures still undergoing active development? 6. What type of development environment (both HW and SW) supported and contributed to the evolution of 36 bit systems? 7. What influence did TOPS 10/20 have on other vendors system development? This history will undoubtedly be assembled from many sources and participants. Some information will be anecdotal; there will be interviews with the people involved (users and developers) and technical papers will be solicited. Of course there will also be the packaging and assembly of facts as we see them. The result will hopefully have sufficient depth to serve as: 1. An introductory or advanced text on system design and hardware/system software implementation. 2. A analysis of the success and difficulties of marketing complex systems into a very crowded market of competing alternatives. 3. A catharsis for those of us who have contributed to the development and use these systems and who will now move onto new computing architectures and opportunities. In addition to interviewing directly 25-50 developers, users and product managers we will continue to work to identify contributors and significant events up to when the final draft is submitted to the publisher. Two "topics" are already under development: 1. Rob Gingell from SUN is working on a paper which looks at extensions to TOPS 20 which would have enhanced its capabilities. 2. Frank da Cruz and Columbia are summarizing 10 years of experience and development of TOPS 20 systems. Some effort will also be made to detail the process which lead to their selection of a follow-on architecture to TOPS 20. There is a need to develop additional topics which represent the use and application of the technology (TOPS 10/20) in other areas. Specific recommendations are welcome as are proposals to develop them. A short abstract should accompany any such proposal. Every effort will be made to work with individuals or organizations interested in making such a contribution. There will be a standalone (no network connections) DECSYSTEM 2020 (YIPYIP) dedicated to supporting the project. This system has a 3 line hunt group, with all lines accessible from a single number (201.874.8612). Both YIPYIP and MARKET will have "public" directories for remote login (DEMPSTER.PROJECT-10262 LCGLCG). MARKET can be accessed by modem (617.467.7437), however disk quota is limited. MARKET's primary purpose is ARPAnet TELNET access. YIPYIP is a dedicated PROJECT-10262 system. MAIL can also be sent to DEMPSTER on either system. YIPYIP and MARKET will keep a running summary of ideas and comments up on Columbia's BBOARD software. KERMIT also runs on each system for uploads. SAIL.STANFORD.EDU will support ARPAnet transfers to a "public" area: FTP CONNECT SAIL.STANFORD.EDU SEND AFN.EXT DSK: AFN.EXT [PUB,LES] SAIL runs WAITS, an operating system similiar to TOPS 10. File names are limited to 6 characters and extensions limited to 3. Implementation details: 1. User input is welcomed and desired from all application and geographic areas. 2. Input from past and present developers is also desired. 3. Throughout the project a secondary goal will be to build a list of users/locations (installation date, duration and disposition) of PDP-6 and KA, KI, KL and KS systems. Serial numbers, if available, are requested. 4. We anticipate that this project will generate a large volume of information (which we hope will arrive electronically). Some information, for any number of reasons, may not be in line with the project's stated goals. Therefore, all notes, interview material and submissions will be donated to the Computer Museum in Boston at the the completion of the project to be available for future reference and research. Ideas, contributions, suggestions and criticism are welcome. As these 36 bit systems were the products of a multitude of people, so too will be the writing of their history.