Received: from MC.LCS.MIT.EDU (CHAOS 3131) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU; 15 Jan 90 17:10:02 EST Received: from lcs.mit.edu (CHAOS 15044) by MC.LCS.MIT.EDU; 15 Jan 90 17:02:58 EST Received: from STONY-BROOK.SCRC.SYMBOLICS.COM by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa22982; 15 Jan 90 16:55 EST Received: from KENNETH-WILLIAMS.SCRC.Symbolics.COM by STONY-BROOK.SCRC.Symbolics.COM via INTERNET with SMTP id 723221; 15 Jan 90 16:49:04 EST Date: Mon, 15 Jan 90 16:50 EST From: "David A. Moon" Subject: That Time Again on ML To: jtw@ml.ai.mit.edu cc: ks-its@mc.lcs.mit.edu In-Reply-To: <11080.900112.PFTHMG-DRAGON@ML.AI.MIT.EDU> Message-ID: <19900115215013.2.MOON@KENNETH-WILLIAMS.SCRC.Symbolics.COM> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 90 18:47:52 EST From: Puff the Magic Dragon Don't forget to print out the DSK:DRAGON;NOV REPORT file and give it to the appropriate people. Thanks John (I assume it was you who made ML work again).  Received: from MC.LCS.MIT.EDU (CHAOS 3131) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU; 27 Nov 89 09:48:35 EST Date: Mon, 27 Nov 89 09:46:31 EST From: "Robert E. Seastrom" Subject: ML status? To: ks-its@AI.AI.MIT.EDU Message-ID: <628937.891127.RS@MC.LCS.MIT.EDU> What is the status of ML? If ML is not going to be back up in the near future, how about the status of the tape drive on AI so that I can get back some of the files on ML that I need? ---Rob  Received: from lcs.mit.edu (CHAOS 15044) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU 17 Nov 89 21:07:32 EST From: John Wroclawski Sender: jtw@lcs.mit.edu To: laurel@ai.mit.edu, alan@ai.ai.mit.edu cc: bug-ks@ai.ai.mit.edu Subject: yet more cruft about KS10s Date: Fri, 17 Nov 89 20:57:32 EST Message-ID: <8911172057.aa21978@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> ML's disk, and thence ML, are again running. Maybe the easiest plausible thing to do about MD's disk, which looks pretty beat both electronically and mechanically, is to swap it with HT's disk, which seems to be OK at first glance. -john  Date: Wed, 15 Nov 89 20:15:11 EST From: "Pandora B. Berman" Subject: ML still down To: BUG-KS%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.LCS.MIT.EDU cc: LAUREL%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.LCS.MIT.EDU Message-ID: <669838.891115.CENT@AI.AI.MIT.EDU> i tried a few of the simple things alan mentioned. it's the right disk and the right number plug. as far as i can tell, everything is powered up, connected correctly (i didn't try tracing the cables), and there hasn't been a head crash. RESET doesn't help. most of his other suggestions are beyond my technical capability or my nerve. so laurel and i have postponed the AI and MC PMs. we figured it won't hurt to ask d'avolio to look at ML's disk again, since he's probably going to be here in the morning.  Received: from lcs.mit.edu (CHAOS 15044) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU 14 Nov 89 11:51:44 EST From: Rob Austein Sender: sra@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu To: laurel@ai.mit.edu CC: jtw@lcs.mit.edu, ALAN@MC.lcs.mit.edu, CENT@MC.lcs.mit.edu, BUG-KS@ai.ai.mit.edu In-reply-to: Laurel Simmons's message of Tue, 14 Nov 89 09:22:18 EST <8911141422.AA21933@rice-chex> Subject: ML losing, world ends, etc. Date: Tue, 14 Nov 89 11:45:31 EST Message-ID: <8911141145.aa23727@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> From: Laurel Simmons Date: Tue, 14 Nov 89 09:22:18 EST Ty rolled the other RP06's out the door. Presumably on orders from Tom Greene. This happened about a week ago. Specificly, he rolled them down into the basement, as part of clearing the floor space that now officially belongs to the Dean's Office. They're not gone, although I don't know how long their life expectancy will be down in the flood zone.  Received: from REAGAN.AI.MIT.EDU (CHAOS 13065) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU 14 Nov 89 09:26:37 EST Received: from AI.MIT.EDU by REAGAN.AI.MIT.EDU via INTERNET with SMTP id 275848; 14 Nov 89 09:23:54 EST Received: from rice-chex (rice-chex.ai.mit.edu) by life.ai.mit.edu (4.0/AI-4.10) id AA05005; Tue, 14 Nov 89 09:22:41 EST From: laurel@ai.mit.edu (Laurel Simmons) Received: by rice-chex (4.0/AI-4.10) id AA21933; Tue, 14 Nov 89 09:22:18 EST Date: Tue, 14 Nov 89 09:22:18 EST Message-Id: <8911141422.AA21933@rice-chex> To: jtw@lcs.mit.edu Cc: ALAN%MC.LCS.MIT.EDU@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu, CENT%MC.LCS.MIT.EDU@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu, BUG-KS@ai.ai.mit.edu In-Reply-To: John Wroclawski's message of Mon, 13 Nov 89 22:11:53 EST <8911132211.aa06330@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> Subject: ML losing, world ends, etc. Ty rolled the other RP06's out the door. Presumably on orders from Tom Greene. This happened about a week ago.  Received: from REAGAN.AI.MIT.EDU (CHAOS 13065) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU 14 Nov 89 09:25:12 EST Received: from AI.MIT.EDU by REAGAN.AI.MIT.EDU via INTERNET with SMTP id 275846; 14 Nov 89 09:22:30 EST Received: from rice-chex (rice-chex.ai.mit.edu) by life.ai.mit.edu (4.0/AI-4.10) id AA04984; Tue, 14 Nov 89 09:21:15 EST From: laurel@ai.mit.edu (Laurel Simmons) Received: by rice-chex (4.0/AI-4.10) id AA21892; Tue, 14 Nov 89 09:20:54 EST Date: Tue, 14 Nov 89 09:20:54 EST Message-Id: <8911141420.AA21892@rice-chex> To: ALAN%MC.LCS.MIT.EDU@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu Cc: CENT%MC.LCS.MIT.EDU@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu, JTW%MC.LCS.MIT.EDU@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu, SRA%MC.LCS.MIT.EDU@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu, BUG-ks@ai.ai.mit.edu, LAUREL%MC.LCS.MIT.EDU@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu In-Reply-To: Alan Bawden's message of Mon, 13 Nov 89 20:35:56 EST <626713.891113.ALAN@MC.LCS.MIT.EDU> Whoa! I had no idea ML was broken since Mike on Thursday. Why didn't anyone tell me? Should I call them and get him back here? laurel  Received: from lcs.mit.edu (CHAOS 15044) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU 14 Nov 89 00:26:33 EST Received: from arisia.Xerox.COM by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa26023; 14 Nov 89 0:19 EST Received: from roo.parc.Xerox.COM by arisia.Xerox.COM with SMTP (5.61+/IDA-1.2.8/gandalf) id AA16540; Mon, 13 Nov 89 21:13:49 -0800 Received: from mr-bun.parc.Xerox.COM by roo.parc.xerox.com with SMTP (5.61+/IDA-1.2.8/gandalf) id AA07116; Mon, 13 Nov 89 21:14:50 PST Date: Mon, 13 Nov 89 21:14 PST From: Alan Bawden Subject: ML disk dead To: CENT%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.lcs.mit.edu, BUG-KS%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.lcs.mit.edu, LAUREL%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.lcs.mit.edu In-Reply-To: <668827.891113.CENT@AI.AI.MIT.EDU> Message-Id: <19891114051402.7.ALAN@MR-BUN.parc.xerox.com> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 89 21:59:41 EST From: "Pandora B. Berman" it's clear that ML has -not- run since Provocative Maintenance. for what it's worth, i did an incremental immediately before i turned it off, so if the pack is trashed we can reconstitute it. but i think you and laurel need to decide between you whether to let d'avolio touch AI and MC before fixing ML's disk.. I think it would be foolish to let them touch any other machine until ML is working again. If the problem doesn't turn out to be something trivial, someone better get the word to them so they don't screw us further on Thursday. But getting them to fix ML may be harder than just telling them that we can't get it to boot. They can always blame it on our software, or our disk pack, or something. After all, they just did a PM so it must be working! When they put us in this situation, we have to be able to tell them what the problem is (beyond "it won't boot"). Questions that occur to me: Is the right unit number plug (0) inserted? Is everything properly powered on? Plugged in? What happens if you first push the RESET button to reset the 8080? It would be awfully embarrassing to make a big scene about not letting DEC touch AI and MC, and then discover that we mounted the wrong pack... You can get the 8080 to tell you exactly what the error was that it encountered, someone should do that. (It's in the manual -- I don't think you have to read the 8080 source code, although we have that to!) It might save you a lot of trouble worrying about head crashes if you know that the 8080 can't even talk to the controller! Is the pack in the same drive that the processor is cabled up to? (Sometimes the guys from DEC like to "improve" things.) The drive that used to work was the one closer to the door (-not- the one next to the working processor). Is there any evidence on the system console that the guys from DEC might have accidentally used our pack as a scratch pack? Did D'Avolio actually -say- that the PM was finished? He really thinks he left the machine working? What was the last thing that -he- did (according to the console paper)? Could the pack have had a head crash the first time it was mounted after DEC left? (Well, has anyone looked?) Do any other packs boot in ML? Like an old AI pack #0 that was DUP'ed and retired. (Don't try this unless you are certain that it isn't a head crash. You only lose another pack but RP06 packs are getting somewhat rare...) Does that pack boot in any other machines? (Don't try that unless you are -really- certain that it isn't crashed, RP06 heads are precious.) What happens if you cable up "MD's" drive to ML and try it? (I think it works well enough to try some simple experiments.)  Received: from lcs.mit.edu (CHAOS 15044) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU 13 Nov 89 22:16:20 EST From: John Wroclawski Sender: jtw@lcs.mit.edu To: ALAN%MC.LCS.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.lcs.mit.edu CC: CENT%MC.LCS.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.lcs.mit.edu, BUG-KS@AI.ai.mit.edu, LAUREL@ai.mit.edu In-reply-to: Alan Bawden's message of Mon, 13 Nov 89 20:35:56 EST <626713.891113.ALAN@MC.LCS.MIT.EDU> Subject: ML losing, world ends, etc. Date: Mon, 13 Nov 89 22:11:53 EST Message-ID: <8911132211.aa06330@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 89 20:35:56 EST From: Alan Bawden [After glancing through my mail on AI] I've got a bad feeling about letting DEC play with AI and MC after breaking ML. Is there any evidence that ML -ever- ran after they did "PM"? Answering several questions at once: The RP06 sitting in the middle of what used to be the vax farm (has a very tiny note from Alan on it about "spindle bearings") is my source for parts. It has many good heads. ML seems never to have run after DEC finished. I looked at it briefly and found nothing glaringly wrong. It gets different error codes every time you boot it. Maybe DEC realigned the disk heads and they were bad enough before that the pack is now unreadable. I suppose we could ask Mike D. about this. I can look at it more, but probably not for a few days. Um, weren't there two RP06s in the corner where XX was until quite recently? Where'd they go? -john  Date: Mon, 13 Nov 89 21:59:41 EST From: "Pandora B. Berman" Subject: ML disk dead To: BUG-KS%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.LCS.MIT.EDU, LAUREL%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.LCS.MIT.EDU cc: "bawden@parc.xerox.com"@MINTAKA.LCS.MIT.EDU Message-ID: <668827.891113.CENT@AI.AI.MIT.EDU> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 89 20:25:57 EST From: Alan Bawden To: CENT@mc, JTW@mc, SRA@mc Penny tells me that when you try and boot ML it says ?BT 001120. Basically, this means that when the very first time the 8080 tries to access the disk, it fails. This means that either the pack is bad or the drive is broken. If DEC screwed up our pack, then they are a bunch of boneheads. If they broke the drive, then they should fix it. Do any of you guys think you can figure out which it is? Date: Mon, 13 Nov 89 20:35:56 EST From: Alan Bawden To: CENT@mc, JTW@mc, SRA@mc, BUG-ks@AI.AI.MIT.EDU cc: LAUREL@mc [After glancing through my mail on AI] I've got a bad feeling about letting DEC play with AI and MC after breaking ML. Is there any evidence that ML -ever- ran after they did "PM"? If not, then you damn well better not let them touch AI (at least) until ML is working. If I come back Thursday and everything is broken and I have to deal with it all, I'm unlikely to do it with a smile on my face.. it's clear that ML has -not- run since Provocative Maintenance. for what it's worth, i did an incremental immediately before i turned it off, so if the pack is trashed we can reconstitute it. but i think you and laurel need to decide between you whether to let d'avolio touch AI and MC before fixing ML's disk.  Received: from MC.LCS.MIT.EDU (CHAOS 3131) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU 13 Nov 89 20:36:06 EST Date: Mon, 13 Nov 89 20:35:56 EST From: Alan Bawden To: CENT%MC.LCS.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.LCS.MIT.EDU, JTW%MC.LCS.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.LCS.MIT.EDU, SRA%MC.LCS.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.LCS.MIT.EDU, BUG-ks@AI.AI.MIT.EDU cc: LAUREL%MC.LCS.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.LCS.MIT.EDU Message-ID: <626713.891113.ALAN@MC.LCS.MIT.EDU> [After glancing through my mail on AI] I've got a bad feeling about letting DEC play with AI and MC after breaking ML. Is there any evidence that ML -ever- ran after they did "PM"? If not, then you damn well better not let them touch AI (at least) until ML is working. If I come back Thursday and everything is broken and I have to deal with it all, I'm unlikely to do it with a smile on my face..  Date: Mon, 13 Nov 89 19:14:51 EST From: "Pandora B. Berman" Subject: ML down To: JTW%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.LCS.MIT.EDU cc: BUG-KS%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.LCS.MIT.EDU, LAUREL%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.LCS.MIT.EDU Message-ID: <668752.891113.CENT@AI.AI.MIT.EDU> ok. why, when ML tries to boot now, does it say ?BT 001120 hm?  Date: Thu, 9 Nov 89 17:06:58 EST From: "Pandora B. Berman" Subject: ITS PMs To: TY%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.LCS.MIT.EDU cc: BUG-KS%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.LCS.MIT.EDU Message-ID: <667178.891109.CENT@AI.AI.MIT.EDU> thanks for bringing MC back up. the patch, in fact, can be installed at any time after you reach DSKDMP, including to the running system, so i installed it just now. i'm just going to leave ML down until d'avolio finishes playing with it tmw morning. i'm not coming in tmw, so someone please check on it and bring it up when he's done. thx.  Date: Mon, 6 Nov 89 16:19:42 EST From: "Pandora B. Berman" Subject: PM schedule To: BUG-KS%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.LCS.MIT.EDU cc: LAUREL%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.LCS.MIT.EDU Message-ID: <665528.891106.CENT@AI.AI.MIT.EDU> laurel says PM for MC and ML is scheduled for 6am thu (9 nov.); i will bring them down wed. night. apparently d'avolio thinks PMing all the KSs will take longer than 1 day, so after he does ML and MC he will negotiate with laurel when to do AI.  Received: from lcs.mit.edu (CHAOS 15044) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU 3 Nov 89 13:24:32 EST Received: from STONY-BROOK.SCRC.SYMBOLICS.COM by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa12554; 3 Nov 89 13:20 EST Received: from EUPHRATES.SCRC.Symbolics.COM by STONY-BROOK.SCRC.Symbolics.COM via CHAOS with CHAOS-MAIL id 686957; 3 Nov 89 12:32:56 EST Date: Fri, 3 Nov 89 12:33 EST From: "David A. Moon" Subject: 2020 maintenance To: John Wroclawski cc: BUG-KS@ai.ai.mit.edu, laurel@ai.mit.edu In-Reply-To: <8911022011.aa05165@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> Message-ID: <19891103173310.9.MOON@EUPHRATES.SCRC.Symbolics.COM> Date: Thu, 2 Nov 89 20:11:01 EST From: John Wroclawski I fixed ML's disk. Yay! Thank you.  Received: from REAGAN.AI.MIT.EDU (CHAOS 13065) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU 3 Nov 89 11:14:37 EST Received: from AI.MIT.EDU by REAGAN.AI.MIT.EDU via INTERNET with SMTP id 273072; 3 Nov 89 11:14:46 EST Received: from apple-jacks (apple-jacks.ai.mit.edu) by life.ai.mit.edu (4.0/AI-4.10) id AA19270; Fri, 3 Nov 89 11:13:38 EST From: laurel@ai.mit.edu (Laurel Simmons) Received: by apple-jacks (4.0/AI-4.10) id AA02558; Fri, 3 Nov 89 11:13:34 EST Date: Fri, 3 Nov 89 11:13:34 EST Message-Id: <8911031613.AA02558@apple-jacks> To: bawden@parc.xerox.com Cc: sra@lcs.mit.edu, CENT@ai.ai.mit.edu, BUG-KS@ai.ai.mit.edu In-Reply-To: Alan Bawden's message of Thu, 2 Nov 89 11:54 PST <19891102195447.0.ALAN@MR-BUN.parc.xerox.com> Subject: 2020 maintenance I have logged a service call. The log number is BB0093. I just used AI's system serial number since it seemed from what everyone was saying that it wasn't a relevant number anyway. They had no problem swallowing the number and said they would page Mike Divolio right away. Cheers laurel  Received: from REAGAN.AI.MIT.EDU (CHAOS 13065) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU 3 Nov 89 10:32:59 EST Received: from AI.MIT.EDU by REAGAN.AI.MIT.EDU via INTERNET with SMTP id 273065; 3 Nov 89 10:33:07 EST Received: from apple-jacks (apple-jacks.ai.mit.edu) by life.ai.mit.edu (4.0/AI-4.10) id AA18735; Fri, 3 Nov 89 10:32:03 EST From: laurel@ai.mit.edu (Laurel Simmons) Received: by apple-jacks (4.0/AI-4.10) id AA02551; Fri, 3 Nov 89 10:31:59 EST Date: Fri, 3 Nov 89 10:31:59 EST Message-Id: <8911031531.AA02551@apple-jacks> To: jtw@lcs.mit.edu Cc: BUG-KS@ai.ai.mit.edu In-Reply-To: John Wroclawski's message of Thu, 2 Nov 89 20:11:01 EST <8911022011.aa05165@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> Subject: 2020 maintenance Cool! I'll have Miked do a pm on the drive but won't have it fixed. laurel  Received: from lcs.mit.edu (CHAOS 15044) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU 2 Nov 89 20:50:06 EST From: John Wroclawski Sender: jtw@lcs.mit.edu To: sra@lcs.mit.edu CC: laurel@ai.mit.edu, BUG-KS@ai.ai.mit.edu In-reply-to: Rob Austein's message of Thu, 2 Nov 89 17:57:26 EST <8911021757.aa04086@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> Subject: 2020 maintenance Date: Thu, 2 Nov 89 20:44:36 EST Message-ID: <8911022044.aa05442@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> They changed to the fourty mile long "system serial numbers" a few years ago. Older machines kept the old style numbers. I don't think we ever had system numbers for the three machines that aren't AI. I have no idea what to tell DEC. On another topic, we are pretty much out of RP06 panel light bulbs. Could whoever talks to D'Avolio please ask him to leave (sell..) us a few zillion? (Actually somewhere around 100 should last till the end of time..) -john  Received: from lcs.mit.edu (CHAOS 15044) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU 2 Nov 89 20:36:05 EST Received: from arisia.Xerox.COM by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa05324; 2 Nov 89 20:27 EST Received: from roo.parc.Xerox.COM by arisia.Xerox.COM with SMTP (5.61+/IDA-1.2.8/gandalf) id AA26145; Thu, 2 Nov 89 17:23:16 -0800 Received: from mr-bun.parc.Xerox.COM by roo.parc.xerox.com with SMTP (5.61+/IDA-1.2.8/gandalf) id AA00585; Thu, 2 Nov 89 17:24:41 PST Date: Thu, 2 Nov 89 17:21 PST From: Alan Bawden Subject: 2020 maintenance To: sra@lcs.mit.edu Cc: laurel@ai.mit.edu, CENT@ai.ai.mit.edu, BUG-KS@ai.ai.mit.edu In-Reply-To: <8911021757.aa04086@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> Message-Id: <19891103012153.3.ALAN@MR-BUN.parc.xerox.com> Date: Thu, 2 Nov 89 17:57:26 EST From: Rob Austein ... Alan, I'm not sure what's behind all this, but my suspicion is that you overestimated the IQ of the people who fed you this line.... It is, of course, very easy to overestimate the IQ of those drones, but let me tell you the experiments I have performed on them: 1. When they ask for the "system serial number" I have told them I have no idea what it is. Generally they then ask what "kind" of system it is. Telling them that it is a KS10 doesn't work here, but telling them it is a 2020 at MIT generally enables them to find us in their records. (If -I- then ask -them- what the "system serial number" of the system they just found is, they claim that they can't tell!) 2. When they ask for the "system serial number" I have told them it is a 2020 processor with serial number 4xxx (whatever it is). This does not work. They can't find it, and I have to resort to telling them its a 2020 at MIT as in case 1. 3. When they ask for the "system serial number" I have read them the multi-digit number that the Field Service person wrote in the space labeled "system serial number" on the pink form from the previous service call. That number works. I can only conclude from this that there is a "system serial number" that DEC makes up, that isn't written on any equipment, that DEC uses internally. If Rob is capable of getting the drones to swallow those four-digit numbers as "system serial numbers", then he should have been calling in the KS10 repairs for the last few years -- it would have saved me a lot of grief.  Received: from lcs.mit.edu (CHAOS 15044) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU 2 Nov 89 20:14:17 EST From: John Wroclawski Sender: jtw@lcs.mit.edu To: BUG-KS@ai.ai.mit.edu, laurel@ai.mit.edu In-reply-to: Laurel Simmons's message of Thu, 2 Nov 89 11:06:28 EST <8911021606.AA01796@apple-jacks> Subject: 2020 maintenance Date: Thu, 2 Nov 89 20:11:01 EST Message-ID: <8911022011.aa05165@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> I fixed ML's disk. -john  Received: from lcs.mit.edu (CHAOS 15044) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU 2 Nov 89 20:01:31 EST From: Rob Austein Sender: sra@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu To: bawden@parc.xerox.com CC: laurel@ai.mit.edu, CENT@ai.ai.mit.edu, BUG-KS@ai.ai.mit.edu In-reply-to: Alan Bawden's message of Thu, 2 Nov 89 14:05 PST <19891102220549.1.ALAN@MR-BUN.parc.xerox.com> Subject: 2020 maintenance CC: sra@lcs.mit.edu Date: Thu, 2 Nov 89 17:57:26 EST Message-ID: <8911021757.aa04086@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> All I really know about this is that the "system serial number" that DEC used to want when I placed calls for XX (or the KL I used to work with at Wesleyan) was the processor serial number (GETAB% .APRID). The four digit numbers I listed are the kind of thing I'd expect as a DEC-20's serial number, whatever its CPU type. When we got BLT, its "system serial number" as inscribed on the front panel where you're supposed to look when logging a service call matched the "processor serial number" as written on the parts list inside the back door of the processor. It also matched the "serial number" written into the boot blocks on the disk packs. That's the number I would have used to place any service calls on the thing. Alan, I'm not sure what's behind all this, but my suspicion is that you overestimated the IQ of the people who fed you this line. The thing I always had a hard time with was convincing them that a DECSYSTEM 2065 or 2020 really isn't some strange kind of VAX; once they got that straight, they'd transfer me to somebody who understood the numbering scheme and who was happy with the four digit number. My guess is that the people who answer the phone for DEC are the ones who couldn't hold down the job answering phones at BBN for the NOC. Just play dumb, keep repeating "it's a DECSYSTEM 2020, serial number 4627, and no, it's not a VAX" and they'll eventually figure it out.  Date: Thu, 2 Nov 89 19:36:28 EST From: "Pandora B. Berman" Subject: ML up To: BUG-KS%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.LCS.MIT.EDU cc: LAUREL%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.LCS.MIT.EDU, NGL%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.LCS.MIT.EDU Message-ID: <664202.891102.CENT@AI.AI.MIT.EDU> JTW was seen stalking around the ninth floor this afternoon offering his kingdom for an oscilloscope. he replaced a bad mondo capacitor in ML's rp06 with one scavanged from one of the spare drives somewhere around here. for good measure, he even replaced all its burned out indicator light bulbs with good ones. ML is now up and running.  Received: from lcs.mit.edu (CHAOS 15044) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU 2 Nov 89 17:18:58 EST Received: from arisia.Xerox.COM by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa03575; 2 Nov 89 17:11 EST Received: from roo.parc.Xerox.COM by arisia.Xerox.COM with SMTP (5.61+/IDA-1.2.8/gandalf) id AA24293; Thu, 2 Nov 89 14:07:03 -0800 Received: from mr-bun.parc.Xerox.COM by roo.parc.xerox.com with SMTP (5.61+/IDA-1.2.8/gandalf) id AA19313; Thu, 2 Nov 89 14:08:32 PST Date: Thu, 2 Nov 89 14:05 PST From: Alan Bawden Subject: 2020 maintenance To: sra@lcs.mit.edu Cc: laurel@ai.mit.edu, CENT@ai.ai.mit.edu, BUG-KS@ai.ai.mit.edu In-Reply-To: <8911021520.aa02821@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> Message-Id: <19891102220549.1.ALAN@MR-BUN.parc.xerox.com> Date: Thu, 2 Nov 89 15:20:20 EST From: Rob Austein AI: 4627 ... I don't know what the long alphanumeric string on the punch card on the front of AI is, but it's not the serial number.... It's not the -processor- serial number, but it is (or may be) the -system- serial number. I have tried giving DEC processor serial numbers when logging a service call, and they always insist that that won't do them any good. As near as I can tell, the "system serial number" is a magic string that DEC makes up that collectively applies to all of your equipment (and isn't written on any of it). Presumably this is a useful concept if you have a service contract covering your "system", and is pointless otherwise -- but DEC still wants it for their paperwork.  Received: from lcs.mit.edu (CHAOS 15044) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU 2 Nov 89 15:24:48 EST From: Rob Austein Sender: sra@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu To: laurel@ai.mit.edu CC: CENT@ai.ai.mit.edu, BUG-KS@ai.ai.mit.edu In-reply-to: Laurel Simmons's message of Thu, 2 Nov 89 11:06:28 EST <8911021606.AA01796@apple-jacks> Subject: 2020 maintenance Date: Thu, 2 Nov 89 15:20:20 EST Message-ID: <8911021520.aa02821@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> The weather station is a good idea, I'll talk to Tom about it. No promises, but from noises he's made before he might be interested. Here are the serial numbers for all five CPUs. This does not mean that I expect you to get all of them PM'ed. AI: 4627 ML: 4653 MC: 4649 MD: 4648 BLT: 4380 I don't know what the long alphanumeric string on the punch card on the front of AI is, but it's not the serial number. All four ITS KS-10s have stickers with their serial numbers on the outside of the back of the processor, just above the door. Brave Little Toaster (aka LSD, the one running Twenex) has a sticker on its front panel. Additionally, all of them have their serial numbers scribbled on a parts list stuck to one of the upright supports inside the back door. --Rob  Received: from lcs.mit.edu (CHAOS 15044) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU 2 Nov 89 15:04:06 EST Received: from arisia.Xerox.COM by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa02698; 2 Nov 89 15:00 EST Received: from roo.parc.Xerox.COM by arisia.Xerox.COM with SMTP (5.61+/IDA-1.2.8/gandalf) id AA21809; Thu, 2 Nov 89 11:55:55 -0800 Received: from mr-bun.parc.Xerox.COM by roo.parc.xerox.com with SMTP (5.61+/IDA-1.2.8/gandalf) id AA18710; Thu, 2 Nov 89 11:57:23 PST Date: Thu, 2 Nov 89 11:54 PST From: Alan Bawden Subject: 2020 maintenance To: laurel@ai.mit.edu Cc: sra@lcs.mit.edu, CENT@ai.ai.mit.edu, BUG-KS@ai.ai.mit.edu In-Reply-To: <8911021606.AA01796@apple-jacks> Message-Id: <19891102195447.0.ALAN@MR-BUN.parc.xerox.com> Date: Thu, 2 Nov 89 11:06:28 EST From: Laurel Simmons I NEED ONE THING!!!! I need to log the calls using the system serial numbers. I have the one for ai because it is conveinently posted HOWEVER I can't find them posted for MC or ML and don't know how to find it. As soon as someone tells me what the system serial numbers for MC and ML are I will log the calls. We have -never- known the system serial numbers for any of the machines other than AI. I have tried to get system serial numbers from DEC, but they can never understand why I don't know what they are already. I have no idea how they think I am supposed to learn them in the first place! The one posted on AI I got from Lester back when we only had AI, and it was sufficiently hard to get that now, when I log a service call on -any- of the machines, and DEC insists I give a system serial number, I always just give them AI's. I suppose that whatever records DEC keeps on a per-system basis are hopelessly screwed up for our KS10's. (In effect I guess we have one system with four processors.) Actually, I'm not sure that the number posted on AI is even the one that I have been using. You might want to look at the pink customer copies of the bills for previous repairs that I keep in the bottom drawer of my filing cabinet (in a folder labeled "MAINT" or something similar), to see what the number is that I have really been using. Rob--Maybe you guys can buy us a nice gift. I think we need a new weather station because of Prep's demise. There are probably countless other things we need or want. Whatever. Well, NIKKI can be repaired with only a little effort (new boot-proms, and a new binary). MAP and I have been going to get around to doing that for months... perhaps when I get back in two weeks...  Received: from REAGAN.AI.MIT.EDU (CHAOS 13065) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU 2 Nov 89 11:07:20 EST Received: from AI.MIT.EDU by REAGAN.AI.MIT.EDU via INTERNET with SMTP id 272731; 2 Nov 89 11:07:39 EST Received: from apple-jacks (apple-jacks.ai.mit.edu) by life.ai.mit.edu (4.0/AI-4.10) id AA01625; Thu, 2 Nov 89 11:06:33 EST From: laurel@ai.mit.edu (Laurel Simmons) Received: by apple-jacks (4.0/AI-4.10) id AA01796; Thu, 2 Nov 89 11:06:28 EST Date: Thu, 2 Nov 89 11:06:28 EST Message-Id: <8911021606.AA01796@apple-jacks> To: sra@lcs.mit.edu Cc: CENT@ai.ai.mit.edu, BUG-KS@ai.ai.mit.edu In-Reply-To: Rob Austein's message of Wed, 1 Nov 89 17:04:27 EST <8911011704.aa02041@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> Subject: 2020 maintenance Rob, thanks for the offer to try and help pay but it sounds complicated. Let me propose that we proceed this way: I just got a call from Mike Divolio. He was very nice and said he would come out as soon as I log a call. I will then make out a wreq for NTE $3700 and that will cover PM on AI, MC, and ML, their associated disks and the TU77. While he is here he will check the busted disk on ML, tell me how much he thinks it will cost to fix, and if I don't think it is too much I will tell him to go ahead, he will fix it, and I will make out a wreq for it. Please note that Mike agreed to PM the machines BEFORE a PO is assigned. This was very nice of him/them. I NEED ONE THING!!!! I need to log the calls using the system serial numbers. I have the one for ai because it is conveinently posted HOWEVER I can't find them posted for MC or ML and don't know how to find it. As soon as someone tells me what the system serial numbers for MC and ML are I will log the calls. Rob--Maybe you guys can buy us a nice gift. I think we need a new weather station because of Prep's demise. There are probably countless other things we need or want. Whatever. How does all this sound to everyone? laurel  Received: from lcs.mit.edu (CHAOS 15044) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU 1 Nov 89 17:16:18 EST Received: by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id ab19362; 1 Nov 89 17:12 EST From: Rob Austein Sender: sra@MINTAKA.lcs.mit.edu To: laurel@ai.mit.edu CC: CENT@AI.ai.mit.edu, BUG-KS@AI.ai.mit.edu In-reply-to: Laurel Simmons's message of Wed, 1 Nov 89 16:18:02 EST <8911012118.AA01612@apple-jacks> Subject: 2020 maintenance Date: Wed, 1 Nov 89 17:04:27 EST Message-ID: <8911011704.aa02041@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> Certainly someone should call DEC and find out how much it will take to do a PM. We need a couple different sets of figures: How much it will cost to do just the AI ITS machines (two CPUs, a tape drive, three RP06s)? How much will it cost to do all three (four? five?) KS-10s, AI's tape drive, and all of the disks (at least four RP06s, maybe as high as seven)? How much would it cost for us to just buy the filters and do all the work ourselves? The pricing situation may have changed a lot since the last time we had this done, and it may be that it will be a considerable net saving to do the AI and LCS machines all in one visit by DEC (the minimum number of hours per visit may have gone up). If you can send this information to us we will talk to Tom Greene and get back to you Real Soon to tell you if we're in and talk about scheduling if we are. Sorry for the roundabout approach, but the LCS ITS machines don't officially exist, so funding PM for them has to go by the back door if happens at all.... --Rob  Received: from lcs.mit.edu (CHAOS 15044) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU 1 Nov 89 16:54:19 EST Received: from STONY-BROOK.SCRC.SYMBOLICS.COM by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa20859; 1 Nov 89 16:46 EST Received: from EUPHRATES.SCRC.Symbolics.COM by STONY-BROOK.SCRC.Symbolics.COM via CHAOS with CHAOS-MAIL id 685808; 1 Nov 89 16:45:44 EST Date: Wed, 1 Nov 89 16:45 EST From: "David A. Moon" Subject: 2020 maintenance To: Laurel Simmons cc: CENT%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.lcs.mit.edu, BUG-KS%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.lcs.mit.edu In-Reply-To: <8911012118.AA01612@apple-jacks> Message-ID: <19891101214549.9.MOON@EUPHRATES.SCRC.Symbolics.COM> Don't you also want to get DEC to repair the broken RP06 on the ML machine? (I guess I don't know the answer to that question, this message is really a reminder to ask penny or anyone else who thinks they know the answer.)  Date: Wed, 1 Nov 89 16:44:58 EST From: "Pandora B. Berman" Subject: 2020 maintenance To: BUG-KS%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.LCS.MIT.EDU cc: laurel@LIFE.AI.MIT.EDU Message-ID: <663646.891101.CENT@AI.AI.MIT.EDU> laurel and i just talked. this is the new improved theory: she will call dec and attempt to arrange PMs on AI, MC, and ML. she's aware that MC is nominally LCS property but figures it's mostly used by AI types and anyway we spend so little on the ITSs, another $1k isn't going to hurt very much. she will also see about getting ML's disk fixed; JTW, please remind her of your diagnosis of the problem with that. i will make sure all the machines are clearly labelled so dec field circus won't be able to argue that they couldn't figure out which was which. also, i will call l&h for details about fixing this power supply that's been sitting on alan's office floor for 8 months. (or alan, do you have current info on them?) when we get info, laurel will create the necessary paperwork here and i will send the power supply off.... alan, is that what we want?  Received: from lcs.mit.edu (CHAOS 15044) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU 1 Nov 89 16:23:37 EST Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa10222; 1 Nov 89 16:18 EST Received: from apple-jacks (apple-jacks.ai.mit.edu) by life.ai.mit.edu (4.0/AI-4.10) id AA19144; Wed, 1 Nov 89 16:18:09 EST From: Laurel Simmons Received: by apple-jacks (4.0/AI-4.10) id AA01612; Wed, 1 Nov 89 16:18:02 EST Date: Wed, 1 Nov 89 16:18:02 EST Message-Id: <8911012118.AA01612@apple-jacks> To: CENT%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu, BUG-KS%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu In-Reply-To: "Pandora B. Berman"'s message of Mon, 30 Oct 89 23:04:26 EST <662694.891030.CENT@AI.AI.MIT.EDU> Subject: 2020 maintenance OK, I get boggled by endlessly nested messages and so I haven't really read these message to carefully. Tell me if this is right: What we want to do is get PM on AI and the other ITS that is sitting next to AI. We want filters changed and power supplies checked and ligtbulbs changed. We want a power supply to get fixed but we are not going to have DEC do it because it is expensive so you are sending it to L&H instead. How am I doing so far? We are marginally interested in seeing the LCS ITS machines serviced but would like LCS to pay for it since they are supposed to be taking care of those machines. So what I need to do is this, all-of-this, and nothing--but-this: Call DEC, find out how much it will cost to do a PM on the two machines, write a PO, and schedule it. Does this sound right? Let me know and your ever faithful servant will get right on it. laurel  Received: from lcs.mit.edu (CHAOS 15044) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU 31 Oct 89 12:45:37 EST Received: from reagan.ai.mit.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa03920; 31 Oct 89 12:40 EST Received: from MOSCOW-CENTRE.AI.MIT.EDU by REAGAN.AI.MIT.EDU via CHAOS with CHAOS-MAIL id 272116; Tue 31-Oct-89 12:41:43 EST Date: Tue, 31 Oct 89 12:41 EST From: Jerry Roylance Subject: [CENT%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu: heph chaos lossage] To: curt@ai.mit.edu cc: system-hackers@TRIX.ai.mit.edu, LAUREL%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@lcs.mit.edu, BUG-KS%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@lcs.mit.edu, NICK%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@lcs.mit.edu In-Reply-To: <8910311353.AA09461@aarne.ai.mit.edu> Message-ID: <19891031174140.0.GLR@MOSCOW-CENTRE.AI.MIT.EDU> Date: Tue, 31 Oct 89 08:53:29 est From: curt@ai.mit.edu (Curtis Fennell) Return-Path: Date: Mon, 30 Oct 89 22:29:00 EST From: "Pandora B. Berman" Subject: heph chaos lossage To: curt@life.ai.mit.edu From: Curtis Fennell Date: Sat, 28 Oct 89 13:49:45 edt To: CENT%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu Subject: ITS tape lossage .... As far as heph's chaos software being broken, I don't know enough about chaosnet to say. well, it still seems to be broken. the ordinary fix (taught me by mr. roylance) is to boot the sucker, but that doesn't help. could you please find someone who does know about unix chaosnet stuff and see whether the situation can be alleviated? thx.. ----Can anybody help me with this?---- -----Curt----- My guess is that on or about 10/24/89 05:18:39 somebody moved vulcan from subnet 128.52.22.0 (aka chaos subnet #o26) to subnet 128.52.32.0 (which would be chaos subnet #o40, but there are no chaos bridges to it so it is not chaos live). Chaos hosts cannot contact vulcan on subnet #o26 because it isn't on that piece of wire. I suspect Vulcan was moved to 128.52.32 to avoid putting NFS traffic through the Proteon gateway. (The gateway has problems with NFS traffic: it cannot reliably handle a burst of five 1500byte packets generated in an NFS data transaction.) Vulcan will be turned off soon, so the move was probably done because NFS file traffic on Vulcan was broken. If that is true, then the ITS machines have lost a path to their most convenient 6250 drive. The path could be re-established with a chaos gateway to #o40. Alan would know how hard that is.  Date: Mon, 30 Oct 89 23:04:26 EST From: "Pandora B. Berman" Subject: 2020 maintenance To: LAUREL%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.LCS.MIT.EDU cc: BUG-KS%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.LCS.MIT.EDU Message-ID: <662694.891030.CENT@AI.AI.MIT.EDU> Date: Sat, 28 Oct 89 13:48 PDT From: Alan Bawden Subject: mail to eddie still losing To: CENT%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu Cc: LAUREL%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu, BUG-KS%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu .... You might want to look through my BABYL file for a message I may have saved from Joe Ricchio about what this costs, etc. (He arranged it for MC/MD once long ago, and I may have added some notes when I did it last for AI/ML.)... you didn't, as far as i can tell. the most important thing is to have them change the 3 RP06 filters. (You probably have to -tell- them that in advance so that they know to bring 3 of them.) snarfed from alan's babyl and now in KSHACK;MAINT BYDEC: ---------- Date: Mon 28 Sep 87 08:55:15-EDT From: Joe Ricchio Subject: Re: MC/MD maintenance To: Alan@AI.AI.MIT.EDU Cost for PM to MC/MD was $579 per machine. Labor cost $150/hr with a 2 hr minimum. Each filter cost $276. ------- Date: Wednesday, 23 September 1987 13:02-EDT From: DEC Field Servant To: sra@XX.LCS.MIT.EDU Subject: PM'S ON 2020's ReSent-From: SRA@XX.LCS.MIT.EDU ReSent-To: JTW@xx.lcs.mit.edu,Alan@xx.lcs.mit.edu ReSent-Date: Wed 23 Sep 1987 17:02-EDT Rob, the pm's on the 2020's have been completed. Filters were changed. Voltages, fans and head alignment were checked. All heads was cleaned. All diags were run. Thanks, Lester.................. ---------- Date: Fri 18 Sep 87 11:19:09-EDT From: Joe Ricchio Subject: MC/MD maintenance To: SRA@XX.LCS.MIT.EDU ReSent-Date: Fri 18 Sep 87 11:23:07-EDT ReSent-From: Rob Austein ReSent-To: Postmaster@MC.LCS.MIT.EDU, Liaison@MC.LCS.MIT.EDU, Bug-ITS@MC.LCS.MIT.EDU Rob, Lester has scheduled Tuesday 9-22-87 @ 9AM for PM to the RP06 drives. Hope this is agreeable wiht you. If not please advise. Thanks ^_ ---------- Laurel, i will try to be around at a rational hour on wed. to talk to you about arranging this. No, DEC would charge an arm and a leg to fix MD. Recall that this is the busted power-suppy that's sitting under my desk waiting to be mailed off to LH Research, who will fix it for about $400. this too.  Date: Mon, 30 Oct 89 22:43:23 EST From: "Pandora B. Berman" Subject: ITS tape lossage To: BUG-KS%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.LCS.MIT.EDU, BUG-DUMP%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.LCS.MIT.EDU cc: NGL%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.LCS.MIT.EDU Message-ID: <662686.891030.CENT@AI.AI.MIT.EDU> Date: Sat, 28 Oct 89 13:28 PDT From: Alan Bawden Subject: ITS tape lossage To: CENT%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu, NGL%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu Cc: BUG-KS%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu .... Yes, since we might need to read the recent ML tapes, I think we should install it. (The bug that happened early on, that made me nervous about installing it, almost certainly has nothing to do with the new code. (I don't suppose anyone has fixed that in my absence...)) (what, are you kidding?) DUMP 442BIN now installed on AI and MC. Noble, that means you now can read those ML tapes using AI's drive.  Date: Mon, 30 Oct 89 22:29:00 EST From: "Pandora B. Berman" Subject: heph chaos lossage To: curt@LIFE.AI.MIT.EDU cc: LAUREL%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.LCS.MIT.EDU, BUG-KS%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.LCS.MIT.EDU, NICK%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.LCS.MIT.EDU Message-ID: <662676.891030.CENT@AI.AI.MIT.EDU> From: Curtis Fennell Date: Sat, 28 Oct 89 13:49:45 edt To: CENT%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu Cc: LAUREL%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu, NGL%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu, BUG-KS%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu Subject: ITS tape lossage .... As far as heph's chaos software being broken, I don't know enough about chaosnet to say. well, it still seems to be broken. the ordinary fix (taught me by mr. roylance) is to boot the sucker, but that doesn't help. could you please find someone who does know about unix chaosnet stuff and see whether the situation can be alleviated? thx.  Received: from lcs.mit.edu (CHAOS 15044) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU 28 Oct 89 17:01:21 EDT Received: from arisia.Xerox.COM by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa10555; 28 Oct 89 16:52 EDT Received: from roo.parc.Xerox.COM by arisia.Xerox.COM with SMTP (5.61+/IDA-1.2.8/gandalf) id AA16725; Sat, 28 Oct 89 13:49:58 -0700 Received: from mr-bun.parc.Xerox.COM by roo.parc.xerox.com with SMTP (5.61+/IDA-1.2.8/gandalf) id AA29853; Sat, 28 Oct 89 13:51:26 PDT Date: Sat, 28 Oct 89 13:48 PDT From: Alan Bawden Subject: mail to eddie still losing To: CENT%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu Cc: LAUREL%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu, BUG-KS%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu In-Reply-To: <661608.891027.CENT@AI.AI.MIT.EDU> Message-Id: <19891028204858.8.ALAN@MR-BUN.parc.xerox.com> [ I can no longer recall why this discussion has the subject "mail to eddie still losing" ... ] Date: Fri, 27 Oct 89 22:09:38 EDT From: "Pandora B. Berman" Date: Thu, 26 Oct 89 17:53 PDT From: Alan Bawden Before I left Laurel and I agreed that it was time to pay DEC to come and do another PM on AI and ML. (I didn't think about what to do about MC, which LCS has traditionally maintained.) laurel, this must have been a discussion i missed. can we get dec to come in, say sometime next week, and PM AI and ML, and maybe while they're at it fix ML's disk? You might want to look through my BABYL file for a message I may have saved from Joe Ricchio about what this costs, etc. (He arranged it for MC/MD once long ago, and I may have added some notes when I did it last for AI/ML.) I think you set it up the same way you set up a service call, and I think it's pretty cheap. I would emphasize that the most important thing is to have them change the 3 RP06 filters. (You probably have to -tell- them that in advance so that they know to bring 3 of them.) JTW, if we are having the other ITSs PMed, is there any prospect whatsoever of getting TJG to pay for PMing MC? how about MD -- how terminal was its problem lo these many months ago anyway? No, DEC would charge an arm and a leg to fix MD. Recall that this is the busted power-suppy that's sitting under my desk waiting to be mailed off to LH Research, who will fix it for about $400. (Yes, RS, I know -- I'll respond to your note separately.)  Received: from lcs.mit.edu (CHAOS 15044) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU 28 Oct 89 16:48:44 EDT Received: from arisia.Xerox.COM by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa10437; 28 Oct 89 16:32 EDT Received: from roo.parc.Xerox.COM by arisia.Xerox.COM with SMTP (5.61+/IDA-1.2.8/gandalf) id AA16651; Sat, 28 Oct 89 13:29:44 -0700 Received: from mr-bun.parc.Xerox.COM by roo.parc.xerox.com with SMTP (5.61+/IDA-1.2.8/gandalf) id AA29783; Sat, 28 Oct 89 13:31:12 PDT Date: Sat, 28 Oct 89 13:28 PDT From: Alan Bawden Subject: ITS tape lossage To: CENT%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu, NGL%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu Cc: BUG-KS%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu In-Reply-To: <661620.891027.CENT@AI.AI.MIT.EDU> Message-Id: <19891028202844.7.ALAN@MR-BUN.parc.xerox.com> Date: Fri, 27 Oct 89 22:24:11 EDT From: "Pandora B. Berman" NGL -- i note that you were trying to read some of the ML tapes onto AI so that you could get at your stuff, and appeared to be losing. this was not your fault. ML is running a newer version of dump which is not backwards compatible. Right, to be completely clear about this: Tapes written with the new version of DUMP (running only on ML since the end of July) are not readable in older versions of DUMP. Tapes written with the old DUMP -are- readable using the new version (I'm not crazy!). This incompatibility was necessary so that we could start using certain modern tape drives (such as the one Symbolics uses). alan, i never got around to installing the new dump on AI and MC; more exactly, i never got around to deciding it was appropriate/safe/ sufficiently tested. maybe now's the time to install it? Yes, since we might need to read the recent ML tapes, I think we should install it. (The bug that happened early on, that made me nervous about installing it, almost certainly has nothing to do with the new code. (I don't suppose anyone has fixed that in my absence...))  Received: from lcs.mit.edu (CHAOS 15044) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU 28 Oct 89 14:01:02 EDT Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa09733; 28 Oct 89 13:48 EDT Received: from aarne.ai.mit.edu by life.ai.mit.edu (4.0/AI-4.10) id AA17058; Sat, 28 Oct 89 13:48:28 EDT From: Curtis Fennell Received: from localhost by aarne.ai.mit.edu; Sat, 28 Oct 89 13:49:45 edt Date: Sat, 28 Oct 89 13:49:45 edt Message-Id: <8910281749.AA02071@aarne.ai.mit.edu> To: CENT%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu Cc: LAUREL%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu, NGL%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu, BUG-KS%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu In-Reply-To: "Pandora B. Berman"'s message of Fri, 27 Oct 89 22:24:11 EDT <661620.891027.CENT@AI.AI.MIT.EDU> Subject: ITS tape lossage Date: Fri, 27 Oct 89 22:24:11 EDT From: "Pandora B. Berman" I can't get it to respond on Chaosnet either, but I -can- get it to talk TCP. Perhaps the software it runs has changed. Any chance that the new Unix person installed a version of Unix without Chaosnet? ok curt, what is the chance this has happened? or that heph's chaos software has broken in some other interesting fashion? we do still use it for remote dumping of MC and therefore need the chaosnet software to work. Well, I can tell you that I haven't changed anything that would affect chaosnet - I haven't installed any "new" versions of unix on any machines except life, and life is not involved on the chaosnet (that I know of). In any case, life was just upgraded to run the same os revision as the rest of the servers (SunOS 4.0.3) As far as heph's chaos software being broken, I don't know enough about chaosnet to say. -Curt  Date: Fri, 27 Oct 89 22:24:11 EDT From: "Pandora B. Berman" Subject: ITS tape lossage To: LAUREL%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.LCS.MIT.EDU, NGL%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.LCS.MIT.EDU, fennell@LIFE.AI.MIT.EDU cc: BUG-KS%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.LCS.MIT.EDU Message-ID: <661620.891027.CENT@AI.AI.MIT.EDU> Date: Thu, 26 Oct 89 18:02 PDT From: Alan Bawden Subject: vulcan access problem? To: CENT@ai Cc: LAUREL@ai, jonathan@WHEATIES.ai.mit.edu, BUG-KS@ai Date: Thu, 26 Oct 89 18:25:18 EDT From: "Pandora B. Berman" ... perhaps the bug is that heph's chaos connection is down -- i can't finger there from AI..... I can't get it to respond on Chaosnet either, but I -can- get it to talk TCP. Perhaps the software it runs has changed. Any chance that the new Unix person installed a version of Unix without Chaosnet? ok curt, what is the chance this has happened? or that heph's chaos software has broken in some other interesting fashion? we do still use it for remote dumping of MC and therefore need the chaosnet software to work. NGL -- i note that you were trying to read some of the ML tapes onto AI so that you could get at your stuff, and appeared to be losing. this was not your fault. ML is running a newer version of dump which is not backwards compatible. alan, i never got around to installing the new dump on AI and MC; more exactly, i never got around to deciding it was appropriate/safe/ sufficiently tested. maybe now's the time to install it? btw, noble, we are working on getting ML fixed. you should remind people more forcefully that you do use ML, as that is likely to spur us to pay it more attention.  Date: Fri, 27 Oct 89 22:09:38 EDT From: "Pandora B. Berman" Subject: mail to eddie still losing To: LAUREL%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.LCS.MIT.EDU cc: BUG-KS%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.LCS.MIT.EDU Message-ID: <661608.891027.CENT@AI.AI.MIT.EDU> Date: Thu, 26 Oct 89 17:53 PDT From: Alan Bawden Subject: mail to eddie still losing To: jtw@lcs.mit.edu Cc: sra@lcs.mit.edu, cent%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.lcs.mit.edu, BUG-KS%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.lcs.mit.edu [ BUG-MAIL removed, BUG-KS added ] Date: Thu, 26 Oct 89 17:48:30 EDT From: John Wroclawski I am assuming that the usual head actuator power supply implosion has occured on ML's disk; we will be needing some parts if we don't want to give DEC lots of $$. As long as the AI Lab is willing to pay for RP06 maintenance, I tend to favor the lets-get-DEC-to-fix-it approach. Unless the cost threatens to be really large. How much $$ are we talking about here? And some light bulbs. And some filters. The ones there now look like a medical scene from "Coal Miner's Daughter". Bad news. Before I left Laurel and I agreed that it was time to pay DEC to come and do another PM on AI and ML. (I didn't think about what to do about MC, which LCS has traditionally maintained.) I thought it would be nice if that happened before I returned, but I guess it probably won't. laurel, this must have been a discussion i missed. can we get dec to come in, say sometime next week, and PM AI and ML, and maybe while they're at it fix ML's disk? JTW, if we are having the other ITSs PMed, is there any prospect whatsoever of getting TJG to pay for PMing MC? how about MD -- how terminal was its problem lo these many months ago anyway?  Received: from lcs.mit.edu (CHAOS 15044) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU 26 Oct 89 21:13:49 EDT Received: from arisia.Xerox.COM by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa18611; 26 Oct 89 21:06 EDT Received: from roo.parc.Xerox.COM by arisia.Xerox.COM with SMTP (5.61+/IDA-1.2.8/gandalf) id AA06018; Thu, 26 Oct 89 18:03:22 -0700 Received: from mr-bun.parc.Xerox.COM by roo.parc.xerox.com with SMTP (5.61+/IDA-1.2.8/gandalf) id AA26217; Thu, 26 Oct 89 18:04:40 PDT Date: Thu, 26 Oct 89 18:02 PDT From: Alan Bawden Subject: vulcan access problem? To: CENT%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.lcs.mit.edu Cc: LAUREL%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.lcs.mit.edu, jonathan@WHEATIES.ai.mit.edu, BUG-KS%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.lcs.mit.edu In-Reply-To: <660980.891026.CENT@AI.AI.MIT.EDU> Message-Id: <19891027010222.9.ALAN@MR-BUN.parc.xerox.com> Date: Thu, 26 Oct 89 18:25:18 EDT From: "Pandora B. Berman" ... perhaps the bug is that heph's chaos connection is down -- i can't finger there from AI..... I can't get it to respond on Chaosnet either, but I -can- get it to talk TCP. Perhaps the software it runs has changed. Any chance that the new Unix person installed a version of Unix without Chaosnet?  Received: from lcs.mit.edu (CHAOS 15044) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU 26 Oct 89 21:07:56 EDT Received: from arisia.Xerox.COM by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa24184; 26 Oct 89 20:57 EDT Received: from roo.parc.Xerox.COM by arisia.Xerox.COM with SMTP (5.61+/IDA-1.2.8/gandalf) id AA05661; Thu, 26 Oct 89 17:54:27 -0700 Received: from mr-bun.parc.Xerox.COM by roo.parc.xerox.com with SMTP (5.61+/IDA-1.2.8/gandalf) id AA26185; Thu, 26 Oct 89 17:55:44 PDT Date: Thu, 26 Oct 89 17:53 PDT From: Alan Bawden Subject: mail to eddie still losing To: jtw@lcs.mit.edu Cc: sra@lcs.mit.edu, cent%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.lcs.mit.edu, BUG-KS%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.lcs.mit.edu In-Reply-To: <8910261748.aa27435@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> Message-Id: <19891027005313.8.ALAN@MR-BUN.parc.xerox.com> [ BUG-MAIL removed, BUG-KS added ] Date: Thu, 26 Oct 89 17:48:30 EDT From: John Wroclawski Date: Thu, 26 Oct 89 10:43 PDT From: Alan Bawden And I'll bet that nobody except Penny has even -looked- at poor ML. I suppose Penny could just call DEC to come and fix it, but we'd look pretty silly if the problem turned out to be something totally trivial. (I realize that everybody there with RP06 experience is so busy that they can't spare 5 minute to go upstairs to the 9th floor, so I've arranged to fly back to Cambridge on November 16 to do it myself. Of course if somebody else gets around to it first, that would be a win.) Flame, flame. I've looked at it (because Penny wandered down and yanked, I'll admit). It's broken. Anybody know what the state of "MD's" RP06 is? "MD's" RP06 almost works. It causes ITS to crash about once a day because the controller complains that the drive has disappeared. There should be another useable corpse in the RP06 graveyard (assuming you guys haven't moved anything since I left) that has nothing wrong with it other than a bad set of spindle bearings. I believe it is labeled. I am assuming that the usual head actuator power supply implosion has occured on ML's disk; we will be needing some parts if we don't want to give DEC lots of $$. As long as the AI Lab is willing to pay for RP06 maintenance, I tend to favor the lets-get-DEC-to-fix-it approach. Unless the cost threatens to be really large. How much $$ are we talking about here? And some light bulbs. And some filters. The ones there now look like a medical scene from "Coal Miner's Daughter". Bad news. Before I left Laurel and I agreed that it was time to pay DEC to come and do another PM on AI and ML. (I didn't think about what to do about MC, which LCS has traditionally maintained.) I thought it would be nice if that happened before I returned, but I guess it probably won't.  Date: Thu, 26 Oct 89 18:25:18 EDT From: "Pandora B. Berman" Subject: vulcan access problem? To: LAUREL%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.LCS.MIT.EDU, jonathan@WHEATIES.AI.MIT.EDU cc: BUG-KS%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.LCS.MIT.EDU Message-ID: <660980.891026.CENT@AI.AI.MIT.EDU> i've been using the vulcan (tape) drive to remotely dump MC. today, i couldn't get MC to connect to it. i tried rebooting Heph, which is the usual solution. still no luck getting connected. i was fiddling with the tape drive a little more, when some random grad student (i don't have a name to attach to him) wandered by and said "gee, is that working? it's been dead for a month." this surprised me, as i thought i had used this drive as recently as monday, so i pressed for details. the GS believed that a new drive was on order but not arrived yet, and didn't really know much. a little later, i bumped into Curt (the newish AIL unix weenie) and asked him. after a careful description of which tape drive i was referring to, he was pretty sure that the dead drive is some other one which is attached to a bunch of the newer unix boxes, and didn't know anything about the one i was losing with. could you please confirm this analysis? also, any idea what is wrong with the drive connected to pyggy/heph/etc.? perhaps the bug is that heph's chaos connection is down -- i can't finger there from AI....  Date: Thu, 19 Oct 89 19:07:42 EDT From: "Pandora B. Berman" Subject: ML down To: BUG-KS%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.LCS.MIT.EDU cc: NGL%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.LCS.MIT.EDU Message-ID: <657547.891019.CENT@AI.AI.MIT.EDU> ML's disk seems to have died for no apparent reason. the sysconsole says something about a massbus err a little after noon tuesday. when i looked at the disk, the panel switch was on STOP. i write-protected it and pulled out the number plug and tried to start it, but it wouldn't budge. all the breakers seem to be on; i tried switching the front one off and then on, but that didn't help. i tried to take the disk out so i could look for possible evidence of crashage, but i couldn't get the screw mechanism in the pack cover to work. someone who knows abou rp06s, please look at it.  Received: from REAGAN.AI.MIT.EDU (CHAOS 13065) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU 2 Sep 89 16:44:04 EDT Received: from ARISIA.XEROX.COM by REAGAN.AI.MIT.EDU via INTERNET with SMTP id 257428; 2 Sep 89 16:41:43 EDT Received: from roo.parc.Xerox.COM by arisia.Xerox.COM with SMTP (5.61+/IDA-1.2.8/gandalf) id AA14951; Sat, 2 Sep 89 13:37:27 -0700 Received: from mr-bun.parc.Xerox.COM by roo.parc.xerox.com with SMTP (5.61+/IDA-1.2.8/gandalf) id AA03498; Sat, 2 Sep 89 13:40:21 PDT Date: Sat, 2 Sep 89 13:38 PDT From: Alan Bawden Subject: Any takers? To: KS-ITS@ai.ai.mit.edu Included-Msgs: <8909020320.AA18208@cs.wisc.edu>, The message of 1 Sep 89 20:20 PDT from MAILER-DAEMON@cs.wisc.edu, The message of 1 Sep 89 20:20 PDT from Mail Delivery Subsystem Message-Id: <19890902203852.8.ALAN@MR-BUN.parc.xerox.com> [ Apologies to those of you who will get this twice, but many copies bounced back to me because of mailer lossage I would rather not explain. ] Date: Fri, 01 Sep 89 10:47:41 GMT From: Brian J Haughey To: Real machines list Subject: pdp-10 Hi there. The computer centre here in University College Dublin are looking for a good home for a 2020 CPU. I guess anyone who would be prepared to pay shipping costs would be welcome to it. Enquiries to Sinead@Irlearn.ucd.ie Regards, bjh ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brian J Haughey, Internet: Haughd88@Irlearn.ucd.ie 9 Dunseverick Road, Bitnet: Haughd88@Irlearn.Bitnet Clontarf, Janet: haughd88%irlearn.ucd.ie@UK.AC.EARN-RELAY Dublin 3, Arpa: Haughd88%Irlearn.Bitnet@cunyvm.cuny.edu Ireland. UUCP: mcvax!haughd88@irlearn.ucd.ie Bell: +353-1-515422 Fax: +353-1-520826 Telex: (0500) 30542 LKHQ "There's no future in time travel." -------------------------------------------------------------------------  Received: from lcs.mit.edu (CHAOS 15044) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU 1 Sep 89 23:04:04 EDT Received: from arisia.Xerox.COM by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa04073; 1 Sep 89 22:55 EDT Received: from roo.parc.Xerox.COM by arisia.xerox.com with SMTP (5.61+/IDA-1.2.8/gandalf) id AA25204; Fri, 1 Sep 89 12:56:24 -0700 Received: from mr-bun.parc.Xerox.COM by roo.parc.xerox.com with SMTP (5.61+/IDA-1.2.8/gandalf) id AA02971; Fri, 1 Sep 89 12:58:02 PDT Received: from Xerox.COM by kanga.parc.xerox.com with SMTP (5.61+/IDA-1.2.8/gandalf) id AA16680; Fri, 1 Sep 89 09:50:33 PDT Received: from Catawba.ms by ArpaGateway.ms ; 01 SEP 89 09:50:19 PDT Return-Path: <@ai.ai.mit.edu,@kicki.stacken.kth.se:HAUGHD88@irlearn.bitnet> Received: from lcs.mit.edu ([18.26.0.36]) by Xerox.COM ; 01 SEP 89 08:41:59 PDT Received: from ai.ai.mit.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa16569; 1 Sep 89 11:36 EDT Received: from lcs.mit.edu (CHAOS 15044) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU 1 Sep 89 11:36:48 EDT Received: from kicki.stacken.kth.se by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa16519; 1 Sep 89 11:33 EDT Return-Path: Received: from sunic.sunet.se by KICKI.STACKEN.KTH.SE; Fri, 1 Sep 89 16:36:42 +0200 Received: from searn.sunet.se by sunic.sunet.se (5.61+IDA/KTH/LTH/1.83) id AAsunic03930; Fri, 1 Sep 89 12:02:16 +0200 Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE by SEARN.SUNET.SE (IBM VM SMTP R1.2) with BSMTP id 0743; Fri, 01 Sep 89 12:03:56 +02 Received: from IRLEARN.UCD.IE by SEARN.SUNET.SE (Mailer R2.03B) with BSMTP id 0742; Fri, 01 Sep 89 12:03:54 +0200 Received: by IRLEARN (Mailer R2.03B) id 4780; Fri, 01 Sep 89 10:55:21 GMT Reply-To: KS-OWNERS@stacken.kth.se, HAUGHD88%irlearn.BITNET@mitvma.mit.edu Date: Fri, 01 Sep 89 10:47:41 GMT From: Brian J Haughey To: Real machines list Subject: pdp-10 Message-Id: <8909011002.AAsunic03930@sunic.sunet.se> Resent-To: KS-ITS%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.lcs.mit.edu Resent-From: Alan Bawden Resent-Date: Fri, 1 Sep 89 12:56 PDT Resent-Message-Id: <19890901195619.5.ALAN@MR-BUN.parc.xerox.com> Resent-Comments: Any takers? (I think there is a more general KS10 interest list on AI, but I can't remember its name...) Hi there. The computer centre here in University College Dublin are looking for a good home for a 2020 CPU. I guess anyone who would be prepared to pay shipping costs would be welcome to it. Enquiries to Sinead@Irlearn.ucd.ie Regards, bjh ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brian J Haughey, Internet: Haughd88@Irlearn.ucd.ie 9 Dunseverick Road, Bitnet: Haughd88@Irlearn.Bitnet Clontarf, Janet: haughd88%irlearn.ucd.ie@UK.AC.EARN-RELAY Dublin 3, Arpa: Haughd88%Irlearn.Bitnet@cunyvm.cuny.edu Ireland. UUCP: mcvax!haughd88@irlearn.ucd.ie Bell: +353-1-515422 Fax: +353-1-520826 Telex: (0500) 30542 LKHQ "There's no future in time travel." -------------------------------------------------------------------------  Received: from MC.LCS.MIT.EDU (CHAOS 3131) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU 11 Jun 89 13:45:55 EDT Received: from lcs.mit.edu (CHAOS 15044) by MC.LCS.MIT.EDU 11 Jun 89 13:41:48 EDT Received: from ai.ai.mit.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa04677; 11 Jun 89 13:40 EDT Date: Sun, 11 Jun 89 13:25:33 EDT From: "Robert E. Seastrom" Subject: New mailing list To: ROLL@kicki.stacken.kth.se cc: elbows@bloom-beacon.mit.edu, mrc@score.stanford.edu, KS-ITS%MC.LCS.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.lcs.mit.edu, PDP8%MC.LCS.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.lcs.mit.edu, PDP8-LOVERS%MC.LCS.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.lcs.mit.edu In-reply-to: Msg of 11-Jun-89 17:59:36 +0200 from Peter Lothberg Message-ID: <607858.890611.RS@AI.AI.MIT.EDU> Ah, so YOU are the folks who run the KS-OWNERS mailing list? Maybe you would like us here to do the North American distribution of the KS-OWNERS mailing list. A few of us here got the idea to do this because we didn't know that a KS-related mailing list (with the exception of KS-ITS) existed. Perhaps you ought to officially register your list... it got me a lot more subscribers on PDP8-LOVERS when I did that... Let me know what you want to do... ---Rob  Received: from MC.LCS.MIT.EDU (CHAOS 3131) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU 11 Jun 89 12:04:53 EDT Received: from lcs.mit.edu (CHAOS 15044) by MC.LCS.MIT.EDU 11 Jun 89 12:00:15 EDT Received: from [130.237.234.220] by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa04060; 11 Jun 89 11:59 EDT Return-Path: Address: "PoBox:36041, SE-100 71 Stockholm, SWEDEN" Organization: Stacken Computer Club Telephone: +46-8-669 9720 References: Message from PDP8-Lovers-Request of 10-Jun-89 21:08:38 In-reply-to: <589062.890610.PDP8@MC.LCS.MIT.EDU> Date: 11-Jun-89 17:59:36 +0200 From: Peter Lothberg To: PDP8-Lovers-Request , PDP8-LOVERS%MC.LCS.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.lcs.mit.edu cc: KS-ITS%MC.LCS.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.lcs.mit.edu, elbows@bloom-beacon.mit.edu, mrc@score.stanford.edu, roll@kicki.stacken.kth.se Subject: Re: New mailing list Message-ID: <12501319606.23.2.176960@KICKI.STACKEN.KTH.SE> As we also have the KS-Owners mailinglist, we might be able to do some coordination? (I do not have any 36-bit system @home, as the KI is 4 times my appartment, it has to live in the basement.) -peter --------  Received: from MC.LCS.MIT.EDU (CHAOS 3131) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU 10 Jun 89 14:58:36 EDT Date: Sat, 10 Jun 89 14:52:42 EDT From: PDP8-Lovers-Request Subject: New mailing list To: PDP8-LOVERS%MC.LCS.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.LCS.MIT.EDU cc: KS-ITS%MC.LCS.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.LCS.MIT.EDU, elbows@BLOOM-BEACON.MIT.EDU, mrc@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU, roll@KICKI.STACKEN.KTH.SE Message-ID: <589062.890610.PDP8@MC.LCS.MIT.EDU> This message is to announce a new mailing list, KS-AT-HOME@MC.LCS.MIT.EDU We anticipate that, due to the small number of people strange enough to want to have a 36-bit machine at home, this will be a low-volume mailing list. KS-AT-HOME is intended for people who own, or are interested in someday owning, a KS-10 (a/k/a DECsystem 2020). Subscription requests, etc. to KS-AT-HOME-REQUEST@MC.LCS.MIT.EDU  Date: Fri, 2 Jun 89 06:46:28 EDT From: "Pandora B. Berman" Subject: ailments To: ROLL@KICKI.STACKEN.KTH.SE cc: KS-ITS%AI.AI.MIT.EDU@MINTAKA.LCS.MIT.EDU Message-ID: <603462.890602.CENT@AI.AI.MIT.EDU> Date: 27-May-89 16:18:36 +0200 From: Peter Lothberg To: "Pandora B. Berman" Subject: Re: warning Thanks, I'm not ded, just suffering from 'mononucleos' (kissing desease) so I'm in bed, fever.. well, stay in bed, and drink orange juice, and eat chicken soup, and so forth. To what address did you mail me the package? one of the ones in your inquir entry here -- the royal inst. one, i think. We are making very small progress on the computer room, the problem seems to be 'administrative', having 10 phd's do carpentry, not discuss it.. that is often (though not invariably) a problem when you have intellectuals actually trying to do anything.  Date: Tue, 7 Feb 89 02:50:26 EST From: "Pandora B. Berman" Subject: ITS published doc To: deh@ENEEVAX.UMD.EDU cc: KS-ITS@AI.AI.MIT.EDU, blythe@WHEATIES.AI.MIT.EDU Message-ID: <533446.890207.CENT@AI.AI.MIT.EDU> Date: Wed, 25 Jan 89 23:22:49 EST From: Douglas Humphrey To: KLOTZ@AI.AI.MIT.EDU Subject: Re: taking working papers off the shelf Cc: KS-ITS@AI.AI.MIT.EDU, blythe@WHEATIES.AI.MIT.EDU Can someone up there at MIT take a moment and recommend what papers (like the WP 227 by Chris) we "ITS owners, etc." who are not located at MIT should have? It sure would be nice to have that data, and not being local to MIT is a problem if it is not online. frankly, cstacy's working paper really won't help you much, and it wouldn't hurt us to let Blythe take it off the shelves (we -will- still have a master to recopy if we ever really want to). the truth is, cstacy's incantations for ITS working paper mostly focusses on KAs, with an appendix of differences for KLs. nothing on KSs. and the main subject of the paper is basic bringing the machine up and down, for which the model differences do make a difference. the same material should be covered, probably more competently and certainly more machine-specific to KSs, in the doc alan presumably sent along with your ITS tape kit.  Received: from eneevax.umd.edu (TCP 20002102401) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU 25 Jan 89 23:22:36 EST Received: by eneevax.umd.edu (5.52/4.7) id AA10107; Wed, 25 Jan 89 23:22:49 EST Date: Wed, 25 Jan 89 23:22:49 EST From: Douglas Humphrey Message-Id: <8901260422.AA10107@eneevax.umd.edu> To: KLOTZ@AI.AI.MIT.EDU Subject: Re: taking working papers off the shelf Cc: KS-ITS@AI.AI.MIT.EDU, blythe@WHEATIES.AI.MIT.EDU Can someone up there at MIT take a moment and recommend what papers (like the WP 227 by Chris) we "ITS owners, etc." who are not located at MIT should have? It sure would be nice to have that data, and not being local to MIT is a problem if it is not online. Thanks, Doug Hey! Whats the 800 number for the ITS help desk !!!! ;-)  Received: from wheaties.ai.mit.edu (TCP 20015020015) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU 24 Jan 89 14:34:04 EST Received: from ortega.ai.mit.edu by wheaties.ai.mit.edu; Tue, 24 Jan 89 14:31:31 EST Received: from localhost by ortega.ai.mit.edu; Tue, 24 Jan 89 14:31:13 est Date: Tue, 24 Jan 89 14:31:13 est From: blythe@wheaties.ai.mit.edu Message-Id: <8901241931.AA00811@ortega.ai.mit.edu> To: KLOTZ@ai.ai.mit.edu Cc: KS-ITS@ai.ai.mit.edu In-Reply-To: "Leigh L. Klotz"'s message of Sat, 21 Jan 89 15:07:50 EST <524089.890121.KLOTZ@AI.AI.MIT.EDU> Subject: taking working papers off the shelf I'll leave the Guide to ITS Operation on the shelf. Blythe  Date: Sat, 21 Jan 89 15:07:50 EST From: "Leigh L. Klotz" Subject: taking working papers off the shelf To: blythe@WHEATIES.AI.MIT.EDU cc: KS-ITS@AI.AI.MIT.EDU Message-ID: <524089.890121.KLOTZ@AI.AI.MIT.EDU> I think you should leave this one on the shelf: \WP 227. A Guide to ITS Operations: Useful Spells and Incantations, Christpher C. Stacy, January 1982. We do still use ITS here, after all. I had someone ask me for a copy of this just the other day.  Date: Wed, 4 Jan 89 21:53:13 EST From: the DC Area Turist Assasination Squad Subject: AI ML MC DM MD DX! To: KS-ITS@AI.AI.MIT.EDU, ITS-LOVERS@AI.AI.MIT.EDU Message-ID: <513618.890104.DEVON@AI.AI.MIT.EDU> This evening in the DC area, Doug Humphrey (DigEx), Don Hopkins (a2DeH) and Devon McCullough (Devon) were witness to the following blessed event: DX ITS.1631. DDT.1545. TTY 0 You're all alone, Fair share = 86% (ITS does not know the date, so messages cannot be reviewed right now.) :pdset (Please Log In) ___002 PDSET IOTLSR PDSET.114 Please don't use this program unless you know how. You are certain to break something if you happen to hit the wrong key. Type Control-Z to exit, or ? for a reminder of the commands. 890104D 2041T .!. 113315/ 0 777663,,550665 ___002 113314/ 0 3705 ___002 IT IS NOW 8:41:01 PM EST, WEDNESDAY, JAN 4,1989 TARAKA DMPCPY . _DMPCP OUTPUT WRITE 20:41:12 TARAKA DMPCPY . @ ITS DELRNM 20:41:15 Q :KILL *  Date: Wed, 19 Oct 88 23:27:01 EDT From: "Pandora B. Berman" Subject: work on ML To: ricchio@XX.LCS.MIT.EDU cc: BUG-KS@AI.AI.MIT.EDU Message-ID: <467947.881019.CENT@AI.AI.MIT.EDU> you may have heard that ML's disk drive was broken. DEC came last week and thought they had fixed it, but they were wrong. so mike D'avolio turned up this week to work on it. he had not finished by the time Alan left today for vacation. alan said he got the impression from DEC Field Circus on the phone that the repair PO he generated last week to cover this work might have been closed before he called to say ML was still broken. he also said that for some reason, DEC seems to gravitate to talking to you about the KSs sometimes, even though only half of them are LCS. so, if D'Avolio or some other DEC type starts complaining to you that they have not received the PO for the work on ML this week, please let me know, and i will arrange to have another repair PO generated. thanks. alan will be back sometime next week.  Date: Mon, 3 Oct 88 22:49:37 EDT From: "Pandora B. Berman" Subject: why there are par errs To: BUG-KS@AI.AI.MIT.EDU Message-ID: <456210.881003.CENT@AI.AI.MIT.EDU> Date: Mon, 3 Oct 88 08:12:16 PDT From: Mark Crispin Subject: Re: retransmit To: CENT@AI.AI.MIT.EDU In-Reply-To: <455322.881002.CENT@AI.AI.MIT.EDU> Postal-Address: 1802 Hackett Ave.; Mountain View, CA 94043-4431 Phone: +1 (415) 968-1052 If you've been having ?PAR ERR xxx yyy zzz type errors on a KS10, you can refer to the KS10 hardware manual for the interpretation of those bits. It should point you precisely at the board that is unhappy. Another thing to do is the double and triple check the voltages from the KS10 power supply (the Mighty Mite). KS's like to run a little bit hot so err on the side of high (e.g. 5.1) instead of low. -------  Received: from REAGAN.AI.MIT.EDU (CHAOS 13065) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU 9 May 88 14:21:17 EDT Received: from BUDDY.AI.MIT.EDU by REAGAN.AI.MIT.EDU via CHAOS with CHAOS-MAIL id 110534; Mon 9-May-88 14:19:02 EDT Received: from SUMEX-AIM.Stanford.EDU (TCP 1200000070) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU 6 May 88 22:18:00 EDT Received: from PANDA.PANDA.COM by SUMEX-AIM.Stanford.EDU with Cafard; Fri, 6 May 88 19:10:33 PDT Received: from SUMEX-AIM.Stanford.EDU by PANDA.PANDA.COM with Cafard; Fri, 6 May 88 18:01:17 PDT Received: from eneevax.umd.edu by SUMEX-AIM.Stanford.EDU with TCP; Fri, 6 May 88 17:27:41 PDT Received: by eneevax.umd.edu (5.54/4.7) id AA10342; Fri, 6 May 88 16:47:45 ]Io Date: Fri, 6 May 88 16:47:45 From: Douglas Humphrey Message-Id: <8805062047.AA10342@eneevax.umd.edu> To: KS-Owners@panda.panda.com, ridder%warlok.DEC@decwrl.dec.com Subject: Re: KS10 IO instructions Cc: deh@eneevax.umd.edu, devon@ai.ai.mit.edu Resent-To: ks-its@AI.AI.MIT.EDU Resent-From: Alan Bawden Resent-Date: Mon, 9 May 88 14:19 EDT Resent-Message-ID: <880509141900.2.ALAN@BUDDY.AI.MIT.EDU> Actualy, this is not about IO instructions, but about power supplies. I support a commercial KS10 site here in Washington D.C. (DEC doesn't know how to fix these things any longer, and they admit it frankly) who has cooked his power supply (H7130C made by LH Research). I managed to find him one, but it too was bad; I will receive another tomorrow morning and try that out. I need to find LH Research so that I can get the bad one fixed to have as a spare. Does anyone out there know where these people are? I have looked in every reference I have and can not find them. Does anyone know if there is any activity on the idea of building a modern disk controller for the KS? This is something that I am sure all of us would welcome. My RM03s are the worst thing about my 2020. Interesting story: the heat pump air handler in my house was replaced recently, and when the guys came in to do the work, one a young guy, and one an older gentleman, they were a little suprised at the 2020 system there, next (roughly) to the air system. To my great suprise, the old guy leaned over the console, and logged into F-S !!! I had not changed the password (same as the RED pack). Seems he used to work for DEC in field circus, and didn't know much about 20s (he knows everything about 8's though!) but thought (correctly) that he remembered how to log in. I gave him a PDP8, and a hugh box full of flip-chips. It was really a blast talking to this guy. Not only did he replace my air handler for the house, but he griped about my going so long between filter changes on the RM03s in such a dirty environment, and proceeded to PM the drives. The young guy (who was actually the boss) didn't seem too interested in all of this. The old guy says he will give me a call when he gets the 8 running (I gave him a set of RX02s, controller, and a box of floppies too...) I don't know why this guy ever retired. I hope I have half that much energy when I am 68 !!! Strange things do happen.... Question: Is there some way to put a TOPS-20 on usenet ?? Doug  Received: from eneevax.umd.edu (TCP 20002102401) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU 23 Dec 87 04:15:10 EST Received: by eneevax.umd.edu (5.9/4.7) id AA28299; Wed, 23 Dec 87 04:15:41 EST Date: Wed, 23 Dec 87 04:15:41 EST From: Douglas Humphrey Message-Id: <8712230915.AA28299@eneevax.umd.edu> To: ks-its@ai, ks-owners%panda.com@sumex-aim.stanford.edu Subject: 2020 s/n 4384 lives Folks, It is with a lot of pleasure, and a lot of smiles, that I can announce that 2020 s/n 4384, known generaly as Banzai, lives. Many thanks to all who sent their suggestions and technical information. I now have, thanks to Mr. Dempster, Volume 1 of the handbook to match my Volume 2. This Ridder fellow sent the magical data on the RM03s to make them behave in a civil (18bit) way. The machine came up without a hitch once the proper switches, jumpers, and other things were set. I have it running UETP right now, but without the tape drive which is the next thing on my list of projects to get running. I have a red pack which should suffice in the MT debugging, with luck. What now? Well, I hope to start running MRCs Tops-20 for general purpose things, and I am looking for any software that I can get for the 20, particularly network modeling type stuff. Anybody know of any? Longer term, I want to get the Tops-10 and ITS releases set up to run, since there is a very good chance that I will be getting another system to play with, or maybe even the guts of one to experiment on making it smaller, etc. What is involved with that? Again, many thanks, and I hope that all of you have a very good season and that the new year will be good to you and the people (and machines) that you love. Doug  Received: from SUMEX-AIM.Stanford.EDU (TCP 1200000070) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU 15 Dec 87 00:15:36 EST Received: from PANDA.COM by SUMEX-AIM.Stanford.EDU with Cafard; Mon, 14 Dec 87 21:14:24 PST Date: Mon, 14 Dec 87 19:40:14 PST From: Mark Crispin Subject: Re: 2020 communications To: deh@ENEEVAX.UMD.EDU cc: ks-its@AI.AI.MIT.EDU, ks-owners@PANDA.COM In-Reply-To: <8712150247.AA06567@eneevax.umd.edu> Postal-Address: 1802 Hackett Ave.; Mountain View, CA 94043-4431 Phone: +1 (415) 968-1052 Message-ID: <12358556828.6.MRC@PANDA.COM> Doug - There is no version of TOPS-20 TCP/IP for the 2020. I may, at some point, create one; but it'll be a fair amount of work and I'd want someplace to talk to using my DUP/KDP. I am absolutely *not* interested in doing SLIP on a DZ11! You can assume this is an absolute, final word on the present status in TOPS-20 land. ITS TCP/IP does run on the 2020, but not using the DUP/KDP. -- Mark -- -------  Received: from eneevax.umd.edu (TCP 20002102401) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU 14 Dec 87 21:46:41 EST Received: by eneevax.umd.edu (5.9/4.7) id AA06567; Mon, 14 Dec 87 21:47:58 EST Date: Mon, 14 Dec 87 21:47:58 EST From: Douglas Humphrey Message-Id: <8712150247.AA06567@eneevax.umd.edu> To: ks-its@ai, ks-owners%panda.com@sumex-aim.stanford.edu Subject: 2020 communications Folks, I am sending this to both the ks-owners and the ks-its lists mainly because it seems that there may be people on the ks-its list that are tops-20 folks as well. The situation is that I have a 2020, and I am interested in putting it onto the arpanet in some way. There are a bunch of people at the University of Maryland that will cooperate with me, but I need to figure out what the available ways are for a 2020 unders some flavor of tops-20 to do this. Also, it would be interesting to know how to do it with ITS as well since I may well be getting a second machine an be able to run both operating systems. I have the usual KMC/DUP comm hardware. I have not heard a real final word on what tcp/ip, etc. exists for the 2020 though. Can someone, or a group of someones, advise and enlighten me? Many thanks, and wishes for a crazy season to you all..... Doug P.S. Peter, no message from you yet on the RM03 wiring changes, and no sign of the KS Volume I yet Joe! Doug  Received: from SPEECH.MIT.EDU by AI.AI.MIT.EDU via Chaosnet; 14 DEC 87 16:42:10 EST Date: Mon 14 Dec 87 16:45:44-EST From: "John Wroclawski" Subject: Re: Networks on MIT's 2020 To: SRA@XX.LCS.MIT.EDU, CC.Kassebaum@R20.UTEXAS.EDU cc: KS-ITS@AI.AI.MIT.EDU In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <12358492294.24.JTW@SPEECH.MIT.EDU> 2020s running ITS currently support IP/TCP over ACC IMP interfaces and CHAOSnet over old chaos hardware. All major IP services are supported. We currently lack domain resolver software, though. Plans are to port Rob's TOPS-20 resolver to ITS, and integrate it with the ITS mailer. Ethernet (Interlan NI1010A interface) support for both IP/TCP and Chaos will exist at some point. I imagine IP/TCP will show up first, unless the aforementioned subnet 6 dies completely. Also, TCP is getting some attention to improve its performance in the face of the current arpanet disaster. 2020s running MIT TOPS20 also support chaosnet, though again only on old chaos hardware at the moment. All usual chaos services are available. -------  Received: from XX.LCS.MIT.EDU (CHAOS 2420) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU 14 Dec 87 15:51:07 EST Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1987 15:49 EST Message-ID: From: Rob Austein To: CC.Kassebaum@R20.UTEXAS.EDU CC: KS-ITS@AI.AI.MIT.EDU Subject: Networks on MIT's 2020 In-reply-to: Msg of 14 Dec 1987 15:48-EST from CC.KASSEBAUM@R20.UTEXAS.EDU Date: Monday, 14 December 1987 15:48-EST From: CC.Kassebaum@R20.UTEXAS.EDU To: sra@XX.LCS.MIT.EDU Re: Networks on MIT's 2020 Rob, what network are on your 2020s running ITS. We have been offered a 2020 from TI, but it would be useless unless it could be networked on the campus network. We would like to run some form of TCP/IP or maybe CHAOSnet. When it was at TI, it was running DECnet Phase II via a DUP11, I think. Is there any chance we could connect it to our network? All four are on MIT subnet 6, one of the last surviving pieces of real chaos wire here. MC and AI are also on the Arpanet, via an interface made by ACC. Somebody else on KS-ITS might be able to provide more info, I've never done anything with the low-level network stuff on ITS. --Rob  Date: Mon, 16 Nov 87 01:12:38 EST From: Doug Humphrey To: KS-ITS@AI.AI.MIT.EDU, DEVON@AI.AI.MIT.EDU, MRC@AI.AI.MIT.EDU Message-ID: <286268.871116.DIGEX@AI.AI.MIT.EDU> Well, after many months of delay and other headaches, the 2020 hardware has been installed in my basement, and AI spent the weekend getting the power hooked up, etc. The system has been powered up and the KS10> prompt obtained. No time yet to get a boot off of the tape or disk. I hope that there will not be problems, but no way to be sure yet. Any advise, etc would be appriciated. Also, it looks like it is time to talk about getting an ITS boot tape/pack, etc so that a Washington D.C. ITS can be realised. Interesting typo up there! I meant I, not AI.... Doug  Received: from XX.LCS.MIT.EDU (CHAOS 2420) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU 26 Jul 87 00:25:39 EDT Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1987 00:22 EDT Message-ID: From: Rob Austein To: "Pandora B. Berman" Cc: BUG-KS@AI.AI.MIT.EDU, f-s@OZ.AI.MIT.EDU, LAUREL@AI.AI.MIT.EDU Subject: 2020 doc state In-reply-to: Msg of 24 Jul 1987 23:05-EDT from "Pandora B. Berman" Date: Friday, 24 July 1987 23:05-EDT From: "Pandora B. Berman" i asked joe ricchio what happened to the boxes of 2020 junk that used to live opposite the dover. he said he had carefully moved them into the field circus office (936). which is where i found them. since they have prints and doc and such, maybe we should put at least one set somewhere else? Well, it's not a bad place for th, so long as it's understood that those are MIT property, not DEC (ie, they can't vanish without our permission). Most of the documentation is actually twenex stuff, not much is related to KS-10 hardware. I'm interested in keeping it around in any case. I'd just prefer not to have to keep it in my office.  Date: Fri, 24 Jul 87 23:05:19 EDT From: "Pandora B. Berman" Subject: 2020 doc state To: BUG-KS@AI.AI.MIT.EDU, LAUREL@AI.AI.MIT.EDU cc: f-s@OZ.AI.MIT.EDU Message-ID: <232348.870724.CENT@AI.AI.MIT.EDU> i asked joe ricchio what happened to the boxes of 2020 junk that used to live opposite the dover. he said he had carefully moved them into the field circus office (936). which is where i found them. since they have prints and doc and such, maybe we should put at least one set somewhere else?  Received: from SUMEX-AIM.STANFORD.EDU (TCP 1200000070) by AI.AI.MIT.EDU 16 Apr 87 04:36:44 EDT Received: from PANDA by SUMEX-AIM.STANFORD.EDU with Cafard; Thu, 16 Apr 87 01:31:16 PDT Date: Thu, 16 Apr 87 00:29:35 PDT From: Mark Crispin Subject: Re: Announcement of the DEC 10 and PDP-6 history project (PROJECT-10262) To: ALAN@AI.AI.MIT.EDU cc: INFO-ITS@AI.AI.MIT.EDU, KS-ITS@AI.AI.MIT.EDU In-Reply-To: <185625.870416.ALAN@AI.AI.MIT.EDU> Postal-Address: 1802 Hackett Ave.; Mountain View, CA 94043-4431 Phone: +1 (415) 968-1052 Message-ID: <12294897588.8.MRC@PANDA> I am involved peripherally with this project. There is NO attempt to shortchange or ignore ITS, WAITS, and TENEX. But!! We will need *papers* from people in these communities in order to fairly cover these operating systems. Otherwise, I will write up something really brief. For ITS, in a few short paragraphs I'll talk about DDT as the command decoder, PCLSR'ing, and the environment that led to the creation of EMACS. I think such coverage WOULD shortchange ITS. There are lots of important concepts that can and should be discussed in detail -- PCLSR'ing, ITS virtual memory (not as good as TOPS-20/Tenex, but quite advanced for its time), canonical terminals/SUPDUP/CRTSTY, symbolic system calls, CHEOPS, Knight TV system, ... TECO and TECO-based editors should be a paper in itself. -------  Date: Thu, 16 Apr 87 02:04:00 EDT From: Alan Bawden Subject: Announcement of the DEC 10 and PDP-6 history project (PROJECT-10262) To: INFO-ITS@AI.AI.MIT.EDU, KS-ITS@AI.AI.MIT.EDU Message-ID: <185625.870416.ALAN@AI.AI.MIT.EDU> The following message was forwarded to me (it was originally sent to AIList I think) with the suggestion that I should redistribute it to whatever mailing lists of PDP-10 hackers I knew of. I don't know anything more about this than what is revealed here. It does kind of sound like these guys are planning on writing a history of PDP-10's that only mentions TOPS10 and TOPS20 and fails to consider ITS and WAITS and perhaps shortchanges TENEX. But I suspect that this is merely a shortcoming of this announcement. Date: 16 Mar 1987 1311-EST From: "Joe Dempster, DTN: 336.2252 AT&T: 609.665.8711" Subject: Announcement of the DEC 10 and PDP-6 history project (PROJECT-10262) This message originates from 2 sources: Les Earnest Computer Science Department STANFORD UNIVERSITY Stanford, CA 94305 415.723.9729 ARPA: LES@SAIL.STANFORD.EDU Joe Dempster DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORPORATION 6 Cherry Hill Executive Campus Route 70 Cherry Hill, NJ 08002 609.665.8711 ARPA: DEMPSTER@MARLBORO.DEC.COM (MARKET) The goal of this project is to publish an analysis and history of the evolution, implementation and use of Digital's 36 bit systems. This period began with the PDP-6 in 1964 and continues today with TOPS 10/20 development, which is scheduled to end in 1988. We are working aggressively to finish the project, and have it published, by March/April 1988. This will require that the completed manuscript be ready to go into the publication cycle by August 1987! The project will attempt to answer the following questions: 1. In what markets/applications were these systems used? 2. Who were the users of these systems and what impact did roughly 2,500 TOPS 10/20 systems have on their organizations? 3. Who were the principle system architects of these systems? What features, and if there had been sufficient time to implement them, would have significantly improved the architecture? 4. What impact did the decision to continue to examine design extensions to the architecture have on the usefulness and acceptability of these systems. This is in contrast to a more common practice today to work from a detailed design specification, sometimes dated, building follow-on systems which provide increased performance through the use of new component technologies and packaging techniques. 5. What part of the overall design (TOPS10/20) was technology dependent and what can still be considered "unequaled" in relation to other computer architectures still undergoing active development? 6. What type of development environment (both HW and SW) supported and contributed to the evolution of 36 bit systems? 7. What influence did TOPS 10/20 have on other vendors system development? This history will undoubtedly be assembled from many sources and participants. Some information will be anecdotal; there will be interviews with the people involved (users and developers) and technical papers will be solicited. Of course there will also be the packaging and assembly of facts as we see them. The result will hopefully have sufficient depth to serve as: 1. An introductory or advanced text on system design and hardware/system software implementation. 2. A analysis of the success and difficulties of marketing complex systems into a very crowded market of competing alternatives. 3. A catharsis for those of us who have contributed to the development and use these systems and who will now move onto new computing architectures and opportunities. In addition to interviewing directly 25-50 developers, users and product managers we will continue to work to identify contributors and significant events up to when the final draft is submitted to the publisher. Two "topics" are already under development: 1. Rob Gingell from SUN is working on a paper which looks at extensions to TOPS 20 which would have enhanced its capabilities. 2. Frank da Cruz and Columbia are summarizing 10 years of experience and development of TOPS 20 systems. Some effort will also be made to detail the process which lead to their selection of a follow-on architecture to TOPS 20. There is a need to develop additional topics which represent the use and application of the technology (TOPS 10/20) in other areas. Specific recommendations are welcome as are proposals to develop them. A short abstract should accompany any such proposal. Every effort will be made to work with individuals or organizations interested in making such a contribution. There will be a standalone (no network connections) DECSYSTEM 2020 (YIPYIP) dedicated to supporting the project. This system has a 3 line hunt group, with all lines accessible from a single number (201.874.8612). Both YIPYIP and MARKET will have "public" directories for remote login (DEMPSTER.PROJECT-10262 LCGLCG). MARKET can be accessed by modem (617.467.7437), however disk quota is limited. MARKET's primary purpose is ARPAnet TELNET access. YIPYIP is a dedicated PROJECT-10262 system. MAIL can also be sent to DEMPSTER on either system. YIPYIP and MARKET will keep a running summary of ideas and comments up on Columbia's BBOARD software. KERMIT also runs on each system for uploads. SAIL.STANFORD.EDU will support ARPAnet transfers to a "public" area: FTP CONNECT SAIL.STANFORD.EDU SEND AFN.EXT DSK: AFN.EXT [PUB,LES] SAIL runs WAITS, an operating system similiar to TOPS 10. File names are limited to 6 characters and extensions limited to 3. Implementation details: 1. User input is welcomed and desired from all application and geographic areas. 2. Input from past and present developers is also desired. 3. Throughout the project a secondary goal will be to build a list of users/locations (installation date, duration and disposition) of PDP-6 and KA, KI, KL and KS systems. Serial numbers, if available, are requested. 4. We anticipate that this project will generate a large volume of information (which we hope will arrive electronically). Some information, for any number of reasons, may not be in line with the project's stated goals. Therefore, all notes, interview material and submissions will be donated to the Computer Museum in Boston at the the completion of the project to be available for future reference and research. Ideas, contributions, suggestions and criticism are welcome. As these 36 bit systems were the products of a multitude of people, so too will be the writing of their history.